lathe cutting tools recommendations

[Jim Curlee]

I've got an old 9" Logan lathe.
I'm in need of some new cutting tools.

Does anyone have any recommendations on a good quality cutter?

What about the one's with the insert cutters?
Are they any good, do they last?

Thanks
Jim

[45-110]

Just use HSS blanks and grind the profile you need as needed. Carbide tooling set ups are expensive and mainly for production work, also unless you are set up to grind,sharpen or alter the shape of inserts you generally cannot. Get a good tool holder (Aloris/Dorian style) set up for 3/8 to 1/2" HSS blanks.

[bluenoser]

I agree with 45-110
HSS, probably in 1/4", 3/8"and 1/2", would all work.  Just about any brand of HSS blank should be suitable.  You will gain a lot by learning to grind tooling to suit the task.  There is a lot of online instruction on grinding available.  Mr.Pete222, Joe Pieczynski and THATLAZYMACHINIST are all excellent in my opinion.  Above all, make your setup as rigid as possible.

[Bob Roller]

If you have little experience maybe there is a machinist or shop in your area that can help.
You can also grind different contours and see what works.KNOWING the kind of material you
will be cutting is a must.I used 1144 and 12L14 and sometimes,drill rod.The 3/8 and 1/2 inch square high speed blanks and a good,sharp grinding wheel in needed and as much as I dislike them,I get white wheels from
Harbor Freight.The "dislike"is everything is from China except the sales people.In early 2017,my OLD 1963 American made horizontal bandsaw passed away and no parts to be found.I had to use HF and bought one of there horizontal bandsawa and it was under $300.It is the most over built.engineered thing I have ever seen or owned,The obviously have useful items if you van live with NO USA made items except a replacement blade for this saw.
The steel I mentioned is usually available from McMaster-Carr in Ohio,
Bob Roller

[Jim Curlee]

Not much experience with the lathe, but I did run a moulder for 12 years, and had to grind all of my own knives, so have a bit of experience in that department. lol

I've been using carbide, and one thing I find is that they are very brittle, if you look at-em crosseyed they will chip/break.

What kind of a relief angle do you have on the HSS cutters?

Thanks again
Jim 

 

[Scota4570]

Get a decent quick change tool holder.  The Armstrong type are frustrating.    You do not need an an expensive Aloris.   

https://www.phase2plus.com/product/quickchangetoolpostsets/

I got the piston type.  I also have a bunch of tool holders.  You will want a cut off tool and a knurl.  Mine came in a kit and I bought several extra tool holders.  Having most day to day tools in a holder and adjusted for height is a time saver.   

Carbide.....why?  Unless you are working on hardened steel you do not need it.  Any kind of uneven cut will destroy carbide tools.  I do not find that is lasts any longer than what I grind due to breakage. 

Get a box of 5/16 high speed tool blanks.  Grind your own.  It is easy and part of how to run a lathe.   For the one of jobs we do you may end up with some specialized cutter anyway. 

For instance threading up to a shoulder, a breech plug, required a different tool than a generic carbide 60*.  Also different materials cut better with a different point form.  Brass does better with a different tool than mild steel.   

[44-henry]

Another vote for grinding your own. Good info here at this site:

http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_lathe/tool_grinding/tool_grinding.htm

Sherline also has a very good free PDF on the topic. Takes only a few minutes to grind a tool bit and with free machining materials you will get better results on your little lathe than you would get with carbide.

[Dphariss]

I've got an old 9" Logan lathe.
I'm in need of some new cutting tools.

Does anyone have any recommendations on a good quality cutter?

What about the one's with the insert cutters?
Are they any good, do they last?

Thanks
Jim

The inserts are invariably carbide. I  would not be without and insert tool holder.
HSS or Cobalt blanks can be ground to that ever you need.
Quick change tool post is nice if you don’t have one.
If you buy a insert type look to the cost of the inserts before buying.  I have an insert tool holder to replace on that died (after decades) and like the old one, uses TNMG and I have a 1” insert end mill that uses the same cutter.

If you turn even annealed tool steel or other high carbon they may save a cutter. Since the wrong feed can cause these materials to harden in front of the cutter and they will then eat HSS. Need a positive feed at all times and not too slow. Carbide will cut casehardening etc.
HSS/Cobalt will last a long time with mild steel and brass etc.
Its impossible to grind a odd cutter shape from a carbide blank, well it can be done,  its a PITA IMO and you need the right wheel for carbide too. If you buy HSS/Cobalt  blanks by as large as the tool holder will use depending of what you are doing. I like 5/8 squares and the occasional 1/2”  I have a few smaller ones but almost never use them. Some I have made over the years for something that I needed at the time and others I inherited from a friend.
For V threads I buy the welded carbide tip type.  But they are brittle and can break if dropped or abused.
I have two HSS 5/8” square that I used on 303-304 stainless rod for years and years and the odd other part. They need a touch up now and then. Also two for making aluminum cleaning rod handles.
I am a self taught machinist I am sure there are others here more qualified.
Basically I need both. Insert and shop ground. In some materials HSS will give a much nicer finish even if the rough cut are done with carbide. Carbide is not great at very light cuts. At least for me.

And finally prices have gotten scary.

[Dphariss]

Don’t buy the low end stuff.

[44-henry]

Forget carbide, your little Logan 9" doesn't have the rigidity to be effective with carbide tooling. Carbide is great when you have a big lathe and are taking deep DOC's, for the smaller ones like your Logan you don't need it and will actually get poorer results in most cases.

[Rawhide Rick]

I’m going to offer my 2 cents after puttering for 20+ years with a 9” south bend.  Grinding your own bits is an art and takes a lot of practice.  Not something anybody off the street can just do.  I never got good at it.

Carbide can be finicky with feeds and speeds, but when you get it right, it works.

Recently started using the 1/4” indexable bits and have good luck as long as I don’t use them on more than a couple projects before I turn to a fresh cutting point.

A lot of this takes patience, experimenting, and practice.  Guys who run these things daily and have been grinding their own tool bits for years, are on an different  level then me, and a different level than he guy who just acquired a lathe.  It’s fun to learn but you can screw stuff up too.  If you know someone who can coach you, that’s ideal, my limited ability is pretty much self taught through trial and error.  A little YouTube helps too.

[Bob Roller]

Forget carbide, your little Logan 9" doesn't have the rigidity to be effective with carbide tooling. Carbide is great when you have a big lathe and are taking deep DOC's, for the smaller ones like your Logan you don't need it and will actually get poorer results in most cases.
[/quote
My old 12z36 Craftsman/Atlas used high speed and carbide with equal ease.I ran a group of tumblers from 1144 and the last run was about 4 years ago and I finished the back side with high speed on on of my 618's for the rhickness and small .140 bearing thru the bridle.I did ise a 3/8 carbide for the .312  main shank.The 4 jaw chuck is still adjusted for 1,250 diameter material and I haven't used it since 2019.
Bob Roller

[P.W.Berkuta]

OMG -- you NEED to get a book on how to use a lathe AND how to grind HSS lathe blanks. Forget the carbide inserts. They do sell lathe bits with carbide inserts brazed on the end of steel tool bits that already have the cutting profile shapes ground on them you don't need to do nothing to the tool except to adjust the spindle speed to match your work material and adjust the tool height. High speed steel tool bits are the best and cheapest for you to learn with. I am going to say this again GET A BOOK AND READ IT or go find a tech school or a master machinist and learn how to use a lathe

[45-110]

As simple as it gets!

https://www.amazon.com/How-Run-Lathe-Operation-Cutting/dp/1614274746

[James Rogers]

The best thing I ever did was take machining classes at the community college in my declining years. The only negatives were being called grandpa by all the younkers in the class and being mistaken for the instructor by visitors due to my age 
By the way, I believe there are HHS inserts available but you can learn to grind basic tool shapes in class.

[44-henry]

The book is an excellent idea, though there is a lot of free material online and some excellent videos on YouTube. I use this book in my processing classes at Millersville:

https://www.amazon.com/Home-Machinists-Handbook-Doug-Briney/dp/0830615733

Carbide attracts a lot of folks because it does eliminate one huge variable which is the cutting too geometry. What I feel complicates the issue is that it does work on lathes of all sizes, but not as good on the smaller lathes like you have. It can still make .005" finishing cuts, but on the smaller lathes HSS is going to leave a better finish and likely produce more accurate (read that as repeatable) cuts. For a beginner this makes it much easier to produce accurate work. An experienced machinist will likely be able to make do with either and still produce accurate work. There are a few places that sell pre-ground HSS tool bits, it might be worth buying a set for study and also so you can see how a properly ground tool bit actually cuts.

I teach an introductory machining course at the university to a couple hundred students each year. When it comes to lathe work three things create the majority of the issues which are: tool bit height, tool bit orientation, and speed. The tool bit height is usually the main culprit when they are getting a poor finish.

[Jim Curlee]

Wow, all I wanted when I asked my question was to make myself a new ball starter. lol

I will order some HSS tool stock today and start grinding my own knives.
I have a very nice ancient Thor grinder already equipped with the fancy grinding wheels that I use for my wood chisels, second problem solved. lol

I may not be an expert in the operation of an engine lathe(I have several books), but when you have 16 different stationary tools, and I don't have a clue how many hand tools in your shop, it's hard to be an expert on all of them. LOL
I'm happy when I turn on a machine and it runs. lol
All I ever used the lathe for was cleaning up shafts on the old motorcycles/cars/trucks that I ride/restore.

I live out in the dingleberries in northern Minnesota, I'm guessin there are people around here with metal lathes, but I don't know any, and I'm such a stubborn old goat that I'll have to learn how to run it myself.
Just the way I am, I'm a self-taught tool guy, which means I don't know jack! lol

When I started this journey the other day, which for most of you guy's would be a walk in the park, all I wanted was a new ball starter.
Now I've got a bunch of useful advice, and a ball starter. lol

Guys don't take my wrong, I'm not being critical, I appreciate every piece of advice I get, although what I usually do is combine all of the advice I get, stir it up, and come up with my "own" ideas.
Done it that way for as long as I can remember, works for me.

I will order the machinists handbook.
Besides, I'm gettin surgery on my hand in a couple of weeks, so I probably won't be able to do much other than read.

44-Henry, I did discover that I could only take about .005"s in a pass, any more than that, and my old lathe didn't like it.

Thanks again
Jim

[coopersdad]

I got a 10" Logan some years ago, never ran a lathe before, and I struggled with everything, especially tool grinding. The how to run a lathe book by South Bend was with it and got me started.  There are lots of videos on line about grinding tools, which really helped me visualize the process.  Also, go find the Hobby Machinists forum. It's much like this one, lots of help freely given. In the beginners section is a long, almost book-length tutorial by "Mikey" on grinding tools specifically for our smaller lathes that helped immensely. 

[Bsharp]

YouTube is your friend!

Properly naming the 'search' is the hard part.