Lock plate fabrication?

[Scota4570]

I am planning a percussion lock.  I am copying an existing lock. The plate will be 1/8" thick.  The thick part under the drum about 0.15" additional thickness.  I could make it on the mill as one piece.  That is messy and time consuming.  If I were to make the thick part under the drum as a separate part, like a Siler, it all gets much easier.  For one, transferring the screw hole centers gets much easier on a flat part. 

If I make it as two pieces, should I silver solder the two parts?  Screws? Rivets??   

[Jim Kibler]

It's not that much work to make it one piece.  Just mill the little bit away for the bolster and then file everything nice and smooth. 

Jim

[Clowdis]

Silver solder the two plates together and you'll never have a problem.

[Bob Roller]

I have a tool room milling machine,a Clausing 8520 and I used 1/4X1 and 1/8 and the 1/4x 1 and 1/4 when the 1 and 1/8 was discontinued.
I used a 5 flute stub length solid carbide end mill and at 1000 rpm it made short work of any plate for a cap lock.The material was 1018 cold finished.It's the easiest part to make on any cap lock.
Bob Roller

[Rolf]

If you silver solder ,you can't caseharden the plate. I'd recommend milling. I milled the plates on the locks I'm building now.

Left-handed Alex Henry/Staton/Bob Roller lock. Part 1. Lock plate and Hammer
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=73225.0

Best regards
Rolf

[rich pierce]

If you braze with brass you can still case harden as the temp for brazing is higher than that for pack hardening. Of course milling or forging into a die is best.

Many period repairs of tumblers and sears (which had already been case hardened) were accomplished by brazing followed by a quench and tempering.

[Bob Roller]

It's not that much work to make it one piece.  Just mill the little bit away for the bolster and then file everything nice and smooth. 

Jim

Egzackly.Just mill off anything that doesn't look like a lock plate and you're done.
Bob Roller

[Scota4570]

I made it one piece.  I have a rickety old Wells-Index mill.  Hogging off material is not an option.

What is the trick to accurately transferring the holes?  I think I should glue a bolster thickness piece of aluminum between the old and new.  Then use a transfer punch to mark center.  Then drill the holes undersized.   Take the plates apart.  Then drill to size and tap or ream as needed.  Sounds good? 

I guess perfection is not really needed because I will make all the internals to fit what is, but closer makes me feel better.  The original lock is excellent, I do not want to redesign anything. 

[Rolf]

 I used card stock with a cutout for the bolster. Turn screws to a point. Tap on the cardstock. Punch hole with a needle.
Glue cardstock to brass sheet. Drill holes tap drill size.
Here is a link.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=49769.msg493990#msg493990

Best regards
Rolf

[Bsharp]

I made it one piece.  I have a rickety old Wells-Index mill.  Hogging off material is not an option.

What is the trick to accurately transferring the holes?  I think I should glue a bolster thickness piece of aluminum between the old and new.  Then use a transfer punch to mark center.  Then drill the holes undersized.   Take the plates apart.  Then drill to size and tap or ream as needed.  Sounds good? 

I guess perfection is not really needed because I will make all the internals to fit what is, but closer makes me feel better.  The original lock is excellent, I do not want to redesign anything.

Have you see this video?

[Bob Roller]

Rolf has a good idea and it will work.I have a bunch of bridle screw spacing blocks made from 0-1 and hardened and most have ,093 holes and the hole for the tumbler is included and a "locator" has a pin for the .093 hole in the center that's incorporated into the tumbler hole in the lock plate which can be either .281 or .312. Turn a piece of 5/16 round bar to .093 that is about 3/8" long and there's the "locator" for most of my locks.The lock IS what makes a long,hollow tube into a useful gun and should be the best it possibly can be.They range in quality from the super fine English locks made with no regard to cost down to the "gunsmiths locks" that were sent over in barrels and sold for about a dollar.They ll performed the needed job and that was/IS make the gun go BOOM.
Bob Roller 
PS:
I don't "hog" with my Clausing mill and depend  on these high quality end mills.Maritool in Chicago had a good assortment of these at a reasonable price.Anything above 600 RPM will fry an ordinary end mill even when 1018 is the material being cut.I THINK Kodiak in New York State is another supplier of carbide end mills and both companies have no minimum that I know of but ordering less than one is no benefit.

[Scota4570]

I have one of these:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/357473289154628796/
The ways are worn in the middle and tight on the ends.  I have replaced one of the gibb slop adjuster screws on each axis to make it easy to lock the table in place one axis at a time.  It does not have a tapered wedge to adjust out the slop.  The travel nuts are also worn.  Climb milling is a big mistake.  Someday I will get a better maching.

Good video, thanks. 

Nice ideas on the plate. 

Thanks

[Scota4570]

It came out fine.  I made the tumbler blank yesterday and reamed the tumbler hole.  I am strategizing on how to hold the tumbler blank in the mill.  I see a place on the original tumbler where a hole was drilled.  I think a split clamp with a hole for the tumbler shaft and a pin in the other hole will do.  I will hold it in the milling table vice and use a little rosin as insurance.  That is unless somebody tells me different.   

[Dphariss]

I am planning a percussion lock.  I am copying an existing lock. The plate will be 1/8" thick.  The thick part under the drum about 0.15" additional thickness.  I could make it on the mill as one piece.  That is messy and time consuming.  If I were to make the thick part under the drum as a separate part, like a Siler, it all gets much easier.  For one, transferring the screw hole centers gets much easier on a flat part. 

If I make it as two pieces, should I silver solder the two parts?  Screws? Rivets??   

If you make it one piece you can caseharden it. I make them on the mill. I would not even consider making it two piece. Its not that much trouble. I tend to at least case harden around the tumbler hole. Some I have casehardened in colors by an expert friend. Depending. Some I do the entire plate.
Or if the plate to be made  is small enough buy a larger cast plate and machine down the bolster to thickness.  Then cut the plate to size.
Or
Buy a piece of mild steel that is a little thicker than needed, 3/16” maybe. Back it with a heavier piece for support against the cutter. Clamp it vertical. Mill it down to .125. Slide each end out far enough to cut to the ends of the bolster. Turn it over and cut the bolster to thickness. Square the cuts at the end of the bolster with a file. Cut to shape.

[smylee grouch]

Looks like you got a nice finish on the plate.

[Scota4570]

I paid a little extra for nice clean mild steel with a good finish to start.  Well worth it.  I just went over it with 220 wet dry then blended with maroon scotchbrite. 

[Dphariss]

I paid a little extra for nice clean mild steel with a good finish to start.  Well worth it.  I just went over it with 220 wet dry then blended with maroon scotchbrite.

Nice looking plate.