40 cal loads

[c deperro]

Just curious what kind of loads are guys shooting out of a rice 40 cal. barrel ?

[MuskratMike]

.395 round ball, patched with a .012 ticking patch lubed with a 50/50 mix of T.O.T.W. Mink oil and pure neatsfoot oil. This is the only rifle I have that I have two loads for. One for paper targets and one for hunting.
Targets: 40 grains of GOEX 3F
Hunting: 60 grains of GOEX 3F
Both use 4F for the prime.

[bnewberry]

I use 40 grains of Swiss 3f, a .390 ball and pillow ticking (16 thousands as I recall) and either olive oil or spit. The olive oil is mixed 5 parts rubbing alcohol to one part oil, applied and left flat until the alcohol dries.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have three 40 cal rifles:  one with a Getz barrel, one with a Rice barrel and the third, a Kibler barrel.  All three enjoy 65 gr. FFFg GOEX, .395" pure lead ball, .018" - .021" denim patch with any sloppy wet lube.  All three load easily with a 5/16" hickory rod following a short started ball.

[Daryl]

My .40 was only for target shooting and for the squirrel rifle match at Hefley Creek. The barrel was a Goodoien "match" barrel with a .398" bore and .418" groove diameter.
I used a couple different balls in it, a Lyman .395" mould that cast .398" balls with .021" to .0235" patches. I also used a .400" ball with the same patches and this load combination
showed slightly better accuracy at 50 yards. At that time, my best loads were shooting 1/2" and slightly smaller, 5-shot groups at that range, from a bench-rest.
My powder charges in 3F and 2F GOEX varied depending on the lube I used. With a water based lube, either WWWF + a tich of neetsfoot oil, or just spit, I used 62gr. 3F or 70gr. 2F
to get identical accuracy.  With a slippery lube like MR. Flintlock or LeeHighValley lube, I had to use 65gr. 3F, or 75gr. 2F to get the same tight shooting accuracy at 50yards.
Incidentally, both of these loads produced 2,240fps, ie: the 65gr. 3F and 75gr. 2F, when using either the .398" ball or .400" ball. A short starter is necessary to start these loads but
the rifle's 3/8" hickory rod was all that was needed to seat it, with 2 or 3 fingers on the rod.
The smoothed crown on the muzzle is necessary for starting these snug loads.  A long coned muzzle makes starting these combinations most difficult.

[Scota4570]

My combos are similar.  I do like a .395 ball, 0.018 patch, and about 50 gr 3F Swiss. 

0.018" is highly dependent on the guy running the micrometer.  I go "snug" with two fingers on the barrel of the mic.  IT is much tighter than the clicker.  I do not spring the backbone of the mic.   

I go off the rails with a "dry" patch.  I use about 5:1 ballistol and water on strips of patch material.  I wring them then hang to dry.  I cut at the muzzle.  I wipe between shots. 

For load testing I use a peep sight.  With a recent Kibler SMR I can make 5-shot group of around 1" off the bench, double rested. 

[alacran]

I have three 40 cal rifles:  one with a Getz barrel, one with a Rice barrel and the third, a Kibler barrel.  All three enjoy 65 gr. FFFg GOEX, .395" pure lead ball, .018" - .021" denim patch with any sloppy wet lube.  All three load easily with a 5/16" hickory rod following a short started ball.

I have been using 50 grains Schutzen in my .40 Getz barreled skwirl rifle. It shoots pretty good with that load. Next time I go to the range with it I will try 65 grains of the same and see how it shoots. Never thought of shooting that hot a load in the .40.

[hanshi]

The .40 Green Mountain barrel I had on my rifle had two particular loads it liked.  40 grains of 3F, a .390" ball and a canvas patch lubed with either Hoppes BP Lube or TOTW mink oil for great accuracy at about 1700 fps.  At 100 yards a load of 60 grains of 3F, a .311" ball and the same patch & lube really nailed it.  That loads velocity was just under 2200 fps.

[Prairie dog shooter]

My 40 cal Rice barrel has deep round bottom groves.  I shoot 60 grains Goex fffg, a cast 390 ball, White denim patching at .029 lubed with a 3 to 1 mix of water / Ballistoil

[Daryl]

PD Shooter - would that be a .380" ball? Bore sized ball at .390" with a .029" might be a bit snug. It would elongate into a round butt with a likely semi-flat nosed slug.

[Top Jaw]

Alacran - Somewhere I’ve got some notes about water-based patch lube versus grease/tallow/ mink oil based patch lube in 40 Cal.  I don’t recall the physics behind it, but the grease/oil-based lube required at least 65 grains of 3F in a 40 to get in the sweet spot on velocity for best accuracy.   Water or spit patch required less charge. 

Found it.  My notes from an old post on here for a 40 cal say the following were accurate loads. 
(Yes some folks use 2F in 40 cal with good results, apparently).
55 gr 2F and spit patch.
65 gr 3F and lubed patch.
75 gr 2F and lubed patch.   
No 3F spit patch data posted, but these ratios would indicate 45 gr would at least be a good starting point. 

[Bob Roller]

I had a 40 caliber bullet gun years ago and it used a 450 grain lubed bullet,land diameter and 90 grains of 3fg and it would out perform the 45's.I don't remember the maker but it was a nice rifle but not English.
 Also made a half stock round ball 40 with a Bill Large barrel but sold it in a semi finished but shootable and
Don't know what happened to it.
Bob Roller

[Prairie dog shooter]

Daryl,

No, it is a 390 ball.  The round bottom groves are deep, It takes the thick patching.  It loads tight but shoots bug hole groups.

[Daryl]

Ahh - yes that explains it very well. Deep grooves in a small bore are one thing, but even more difficult to deal with, in a large bore.

[hanshi]

I just reread this thread and noticed I made a mistake in my original post.  I do not and never have loaded a .311" ball in a .40, .390" ball only and I cast them. 

And I had three loads for it which had never occurred with any other caliber.  The first load was for 25 yards and I can't recall anything about the load except it shot dime size groups at that distance.  The 40 grn load was an everything load, seriously accurate and an sd of 5.  For 100 yds 60 grains shot the best groups and generated nearly 2200 fps.  That .40 is now a Bobby Hoyt 45.

[Tony N]

I use pretty much the exact same load in my .40 as Taylor

Tony

[RebelSon]

My barrel is a Dixie Gun Works with .007 grooves of about oequal width as the lands.

I started off with .395 Hornady ball and a .010 Bridger's Best patch over 40 and 55 grains of 3F Goex.

Next I went to a .018 patch after reading a lot in here. Reduced to 40 grains since accuracy has been the same if I do my part and I've replaced the sights..I was never able to get the elevation up with what the previous owner had in it.

I've now gone to the same .395 ball, a .020 patch (I found I get less scortching-I also have started using a drop of Hoppe's BP solvent on the patches and spread it out iver the patches as I'm setting up..they are pre-lubed, but I've found tgis helps subsequent loading. The right combo I normally push down with a starter. The load is easy to push down with the gun's rod or a range rod. If I can't use the gun's rod it doesn't work for me as I often just shoot out in Nature without all the "comforts" we sometimes pack along. At 50 yards I can shoot a five shot group with all shots touching from the offhand position if I do my part.

I know it isn't a Rice, but this has been my process. I don't have any need to wipe between shots no matter the number and the gun is shooting.

[RebelSon]

I forgot to mention that I've played around with as little as 30 grains and as much as 60. I haven't seen benefits between any charges at 50 yards. The lighter 30 grain didn't shoot as well as those between 40 and 60.

[Daryl]

Something I have noticed over the years, starting back in the mid 70's, is that if the patch is not thick enough to withstand heavier loads, accuracy suffers with them.
With 'weaker' loads, in patch and powder, lower loads will shoot with good accuracy.  As the ranges increase, more velocity is needed for accuracy and if the ball and
patch combination is not up to the pressure, the accuracy that was delivered prior, is lost.  It takes a snug load to hold back that pressure and not gas-cut the patch.
Once a combination is found that will withstand the pressure of heavier loads, better long range (& short range) accuracy is achieved. I am referring to 50yards and beyond.
Your experimentation's results might differ.

[Don Steele]

Daryl makes an excellent point regarding patch integrity with increased powder charges. In my 40 cal Rice barrel, I was getting great results at 25 and even 50 yds with the same combination (all shot off a rest). When I increased the range to 100 yds. I tested higher powder charges. The groups went all to heck. I expected them to open up a bit, with the increased range, primitive iron sights and my poor eyesight but what I witnessed was much worse than one would expect on a clear day with little wind. At my club the 100 yd range is far enough away from the others so there is no possibility of patches on the ground mixing. Walking down range I found that the patch material I had been using with powder charges in the 40-50 gn range was blowing apart completely when I tried it with 70 gn.