Which kit for first project?

[tiswell]

I am looking for direction for my first project. After some consideration, I have decided to go the kit route and have narrowed my choices to the Jim Chambers PA Fowler or the TOTW English Fowler. Has anyone been able to do a side by side comparison and if so, which is the better value for a first project. I will spend the extra $ if the quality warrants it.


                                                                                                                         Thanks again, Bill Nash

[oldiemkr]

A couple of years ago I had the same decision to make. I liked the totw english fowler but chose the Chambers smooth rifle. The smooth rifle is very similar to the Penn. Fowler. I did like the long barrels.

I had no problems with the "kit". Some folks have said there may be a problem with one of the lock screws but I did not have that problem. This was not my first rifle or kit but it was probably the best quality one I have purchased. In other words it was worth the money.

FYI I put it together in the white and had it carved ,finished and engraved by a well known builder. I won't make a decision for you but the Chambers kits are top shelf.

[KentSmith]

No question, I would use Jim Chamber's kit over TOTW.  Service, reliability, and quality of parts and carving. 

[alex e.]

Rifle or fowler, go with Chambers.The TOW kits are not bad .but in the end you'll be happier with the Chambers.
Alex.

[rich pierce]

There's a lot to learn, building guns, and I usually suggest a plain trade gun or musket kit, so if it comes out a little rough, no big deal.  Or assemble a Lyman GPR.  You'll learn the basics of assembly and finishing, have a good shooter, and be aware of your strengths and areas that challenge you.  It is possible for a beginner to turn $800 worth of parts into a $250 rifle, or the same into a $2,500 rifle, depending on your skills.  With a Lyman GPR, etc there's not as much risk or reward.

Just an alternative view- many have done a great job with a Chambers kit for their first effort.

[Michael]

Look at the kits Brad Emig has at Cabin Creek Muzzleloading. His web site is www cabincreek.net.


Michael

[Dphariss]

I am looking for direction for my first project. After some consideration, I have decided to go the kit route and have narrowed my choices to the Jim Chambers PA Fowler or the TOTW English Fowler. Has anyone been able to do a side by side comparison and if so, which is the better value for a first project. I will spend the extra $ if the quality warrants it.


                                                                                                                         Thanks again, Bill Nash

Chambers. It will be easier for a beginner.
Dan

[Dave W]

I have built a Chambers, a TOTW, a TVM, and three Dunlap "kits".  I think that you will encounter fewer "issues" with the Chambers kit.  The operations that need to be done are all the same but, it seems to me that the Chambers critical dimensions and the relative relationship of the inlets is more accurate.  For example the lock inlet is where it should be relative to the barrel channel (touchhole ends up centered on the flat of the barrel,... etc.)

Dave

[tiswell]

Guys,
     Thanks for the valuable input , is has been much appreciated!!

                                                                                    Bill Nash

[G-Man]

Of the two you mentioned I like the Chambers kit, it just looks to me to more representative of what it is supposed to be and you can't beat the quality.  I think if I were going to build a true English fowler I would go with the Chambers English Fowler/ Officer's fusil - it really captures the sleek architecture of those pieces.

Whatever kit you go for (assuming you are going ahead with either the Chambers or TOTW guns) my advice would be to study as many originals as you can, and also good contemporary guns, even if they are not the exact style you are building you can still pick up useful things and most importantly you sort of get a sense of how important architecture and lines are.  It's easy when building your first piece to get too focused on the challenges of assembly and not see the forest for the trees.  With a good kit there will be good architecture built into it but there is always some wood to remove and tweak the look.

Go to shows near you, study the pictures posted on this and other websites, and get some good books.  You can't beat the experience of picking up good examples and seeing them in 3D.  I know others recommend a different approach, but for books I would recommend getting the most basic instructional book you can for basic assembly tips, like Chuck Dixon's book or Jim Johnson's "Building the Kentucky Rifle" - keep it simple.  These books are concise and have good drawings.  Spend the bigger bucks for books that show originals in the style you want to build preferably with good measurements,  in your case probably the Grinslade fowler book.

Guy

[coutios]

 Before you find a home for your hard earned money you must first decide on what your going to use the rifle for. Such as hunting, living history, shooting and so on..
You must figure your personal needs for length of pull, drop at the heel, comb and the weight of the barrel. Most of the folks selling kits supply a good product. I beleive Chambers web site has most of if not all of this info so may be a good place to begin. Good luck and have fun...

Just my thoughts

Regards
Dave

[Pete G.]

Do your research and make sure the kit is correct, i.e. there are colonial Virginia kits that comes with a Siler lock. Whereas this is one of the best locks on the market, it is not correct for a typical colonial Virginia gun. It will build into a rifle that will be a fine shooter, but sooner or later you will probably want something more "proper". I, like many others, started with a T/C Hawken, which was a fine shooting rifle, but was no more Hawken than a 94 Winchester (well, maybe a little more). If you are building a rifle, build something that is historically correct. If you are looking for a shooter that is sort of close and will give a flavor of an old rifle, buy a Pedersoli.

[frogwalking]

I am going to wade into this discussion like the redneck I am.  You did not say anything about previous experience working with wood or metal.  I would recomend that you consider your level of skill and experience in these fields, and your demonstrated ability in working with your hands in general.  If you feel pretty confident, then by all means, go for the best.  If, on the other hand, you have not actually done very much wood or metal work, you may be better served by spending less on your first kit and planning to make the masterpiece on number two. 

[ken]

regardless of which kit you choose I would go with a rifle . It is much easier to work off the flats to get your measurements and keep things even

[Blacktail]

A few years ago I was right where you're at. I went with the TOW kit because my bride got me a big gift cert. for them. I would recommend the Chambers kits hands down. PM me if you want.

I don't know what your intended purpose is, but I would also recommend a rifle like a Haines or Lancaster. I learned the hard way that english furniture is harder and more complex to inlet than the german stuff. Compare the butt plates. I say again, compare the butt plates!!!

[tiswell]

      Gentlemen,
            Thank you all so much for you input! Here is where I am at the moment. The deeper I get into this project the more I realize I am not ready to start. I am sure from the majority of responses that if I were to start with the Chambers PA fowler or smooth rifle kit I would have made a good choice. And after more research that may be where I end up. This fowler project is going to be a skills building platform for a furture longrifle project. So I am gathering information along the way for that project as well. I made a trip to Dixon's recently and when I finally got my jaw off the floor from when I first walked in and saw all of the really neat stuff, I left realizing that I needed to do more research. I have also called Tip Curtis. He was also a fount of knowledge and suggested I consider a .54 caliber smoothbore ( I am going to use this mainly for squirrels) because it produces a hole free pattern that the larger smoothbore gauges or calibers have a problem with. In the end, his suggestion was to arm myself with Grinslades book, Flintlock Fowlers and see what design sparked an interest. My skill level is, I have never built a longrifle of this level of difficulty. I have put together several T/C Hawkens and Renegades, and a CVA percussion rifle 25 or 30 years ago. I have built a dozen or so primitive bows and  have made about 3 dozen knives, some forged, some stock removal, and a few from purchased blade blanks. I am a instrument designer/ machinist and have worked with my hands and machines for 3 decades. The project does not intimidate me, but I am realisitic enough to know that I will make mistakes along the way and that there are differing skill sets that I need to pick up. I view the kit as a way to get my feet wet and increase the probability of a more positive outcome, however building from a stock blank, making my own ferrules, patchbox,etc. is where I would like to end up. I may not be looking in the right place, but I thought that full size sketches or plans of most makers would more available. 

           I want to say here that this forum has already been extremely valuable to me and I have yet to make a speck of sawdust on this project. Again thank you all so much for you advise.


                                                                                                                                          Thanks, Bill Nash