Smoothbore muzzleloaders and TSS shot

[DanL]

Aye, Hungry Horse. I agree that #9 LEAD shot does not do much for harvesting game. However, Super 18 TSS [Tungsten Super Shot] behaves differently than lead. This discussion is not about whether folks should or should not use shot made from lead, bismuth, steel, stone or TSS, it is simply showing what TSS can do in a smoothbore muzzleloader. If one chooses to use completely traditional equipment, please have at it. I have used lead (roundballs down to #8 lead shot) in a muzzleloading flintlock smoothbore to kill most anything that walks, crawls, flys or swims that was legal for me to do so in my little hunting domain. Sometimes, however, I was wishing for a bit more uumph in my loads.

Here is some information that SOME of you might wish to read:

From the TSS manufacturer:

"At 18g/cc (about 60% denser than lead), the penetration energy is so high that it enables one to go down significantly in pellet size, to greatly increase the pellet count and pattern density, while simultaneously increasing the penetration depth of the pellets into the target."
"As for comparing 18g/cc tungsten pellets vs lead (11g/cc), a Super-18 pellet will have about the same penetration energy as a lead pellet 5 sizes larger. So, a Super-18 #9 pellet will penetrate into soft matter at approximately the same depth as a Lead #4 pellet. However, in real life scenarios, on real birds, the Super-18 will actually do better vs lead, because of hardness. It will break bones better, or any other hard material, because of it's hardness and lack of flattening out when it comes into contact with any surface."


Respectfully,
Dan

[DanL]

FYI:
A Friend of mine X-rayed the above pictured turkey's breast for me. 

At the distance that I shot this bird, the pattern should have fully covered its head, neck and chest area. The 1.75 OZ load of TSS that I used contained 577+ of #9 TSS pellets. We were fully expecting to see far more shot left in the breast (it is in a plastic freezer bag on the x-ray table).

One can see from the visible the shot that approximately 18-20 were left in the breast. All of the remaining 557 some odd pellets probably either missed or hit the neck and head. I suggest that a significant amount totally penetrated the breast and possibly exited the bird or possible stuck in the skin. Unfortunately, I did not save the skin & feathers.

Still playing with TSS,
DanL


image upload

[Daryl]

Don't bite down hard on that shot.

[DanL]

That is for sure Daryl.

We normally slice the breast into thin (3/16” -1/4”) strips to marinate and fry. The thin strips assist in finding the pellets. I suppose remaining pellets in the meat is a downside to using TSS.

Spittin’ out pellets,
DanL

[Mike Brooks]

I would never consider this TSS stuff but its hard to argue with success. I'll stick with my nasty old lead #4s.

[Pukka Bundook]

Dan'l

It may be that a good bit of that small size shot got deflected by the breast feathers as well. even a pigeon will deflect some lead shot of smaller sizes.
I think your pattern on the plate would show many more hits than arrived in the meat etc.

Like Mike said, I don't like steel shot at all, and will go a long way to avoid it.
Really though, biting down on antinomy laced lead shot is no fun either!

[Daryl]

I used to buy shot named Blimyster, made in Alberta. It was VERY hard and really patterned nicely, better than any copper or nickle plated shot.
Biting down on shot is not fun, either.

[Pukka Bundook]

Dan,
I just read up the page and was mistaken on what this shot is!
Please forgive my reply above. was thinking it was a steel shot and less dense than lead.

I will go back to the beginning of the thread and read it now!

[Bsharp]

https://www.super18tungstenshot.com/collections/frontpage

This page explains the sizes and usage of TSS shot

[DanL]

#Pukka Bundook, no need for forgiveness at all. This discussion is about finding out about TSS and its potential use in a smoothbore muzzleloader. I have learned much from all of you over the years and thought I would contribute my bit. New information comes to light every day regarding historical research (HC), political correctness (PC) and materials use of our forefathers. At the same time, new inventions or material availability comes our way and we should research its potential uses for our sport as well. Even though TSS is not HC or PC or a traditional material, I believe it has a place in our sport for more effective kill potential on the beasts that we hunt.

TSS is made in roundballs also, maybe one of the bear country folks can experiment with TSS and bears .

Thanks @Bsharp for posting that information on TSS.

Kindest regards.
Respectfully,
DanL

[Daryl]

Pure lead works just fine on black bears and hardened lead works perfectly where more penetration is needed.
I would be quite resistant to using tungsten balls in any rifle of mine.
Interesting chart on it's use, though. For ducks I found #5 in lead was best for me when pass shooting and ducks
over the deec's can be 2 subsequent shots. So, if #9 TSS provides similar penetration to #4's, that size would work
just fine, then for ducks.

[Austin]

Check the price before you order in a truck load….. it aint cheap!

[Bsharp]

The advantage to TSS is that it doesn't open up like lead.

Much smaller patterns.

Some duck hunters use 1/4 or 1/3 oz in the bottom of there loads of bismuth or steel. [cost savings]

Tighter patterns, with extended range.

Really tight patterns with only TSS, the turkey hunters love the patterns, but Hate the price.

With TSS, even .410s are killing turkeys!

[Mike Brooks]

Check the price before you order in a truck load….. it aint cheap!

I looked at this stuff more than 20 years a r ago when it first came out. It was very expensive then.  The government effectively priced me put of shooting ducks with black powder guns. I suppose that was the whole point.

[JBJ]

Mike,
Same here. I saw it recently at about $219.00/five pounds. That works out to be $43,80/pound or $2.73/ounce. I might do it for turkey hunting but using a pound or two (or more) for working up a good load might be a bit pricey. However, there is no disputing some awesome of the patterning and penetration results.

J.B.

[Daryl]

Check the price before you order in a truck load….. it aint cheap!

I looked at this stuff more than 20 years a r ago when it first came out. It was very expensive then.  The government effectively priced me put of shooting ducks with black powder guns. I suppose that was the whole point.

Same here, Mike. What got me more than the cost of steel or bismuth, was the lack of killing power. I see the tungsten works there, but I'm no longer interested in water bird shooting & we've no turkeys up here in the North.
 YET!

[bob in the woods]

I get geese and ducks coming in to my beaver pond, and although I use bismuth shot, I have to say that the non lead regulations was one of the main reasons that I went to a 10 bore gun.  Large sized shot and lots of it seems to work . If it weren't for waterfowl, I would have been fine sticking with my 20, since it has taken turkeys just fine.