New guy, and practice carving

[PK1979]

Hello All,

A recent visit to the colonial Williamsburg gunsmith while on vacation has kindled an interest I didn't even know that I had. I grew up in Montgomery Co PA, about 20 minutes from Valley Forge; I've been to the Mercer Museum probably half a dozen times growing up, so the heritage of the American longrifle has always somewhat been at arms' length.

I stumbled to this site about a month ago, and to Jim Kibler's site and YT videos shortly after that. Now I'm saving my pennies, as I had no prior idea that a home-buildable longrifle was so attainable. I've also picked up Recreating the American Longrifle and read it cover to cover. I'm (foolishly?) confident my skills are up to the task, except for the carving, so I've been practicing that on various scraps. My practice designs are *not* original; I'm hoping to build up to recreating something like Jim Kibler's rifle #18 as a first effort so that has inspired my practice.

Most recent effort:




I'd just like to offer a quick "thanks" to everyone who takes the effort to share the details of their builds and techniques here. There is some unbelievably high quality work on display here; I've been dabbling in finish woodworking with my dad since I was a kid and some of you make this stuff look effortless (or at least easy).

[TDM]

I too am a new engraver. I've got a Kibler Quaker (practice) stock that I'm getting ready to start on before I try it on on my new Woodsrunner kit that arrived yesterday. I can only hope that my first attempts will turn out as nice as yours. I'd say your very much on the right track, you'll only get better. Just keep practicing to get your scroll work and reliefs balanced.

[ScottH]

PK
Your initial practice piece shown looks like you are starting off nicely.
What kind of wood is that?
The guys with experience will tell you that hard wood carves better than soft wood and that tool sharpness is a key element to success.

[smart dog]

Hi PK,
You did very well and the work is nicely designed and clean.  Your incised lines are very good and can just use a little clean up so the width varies but where you want it to. Incising is really one of the hardest forms of carving. I urge you to visit the Kempton Gunmaker's Fair in July. 

dave

[PK1979]

Thanks for looking! The wood is just some poplar I had left over from another project. Too soft for a gunstock, or to be ideal for carving, I gather. My next step will be some hard maple or, likely, a quaker stock from Kibler's - I think practicing on the real contours will make a big difference.

I started with incised carving sort of out of necessity; I don't have a complete enough set of curved gouges to stab in a full design, so I'm outlining with a small v gouge and then relieving the design. I've read either method has historical validity - though maybe not for particular schools/makers. I'm not quite 'there' yet, in terms of a knowledge base.

[smylee grouch]

I agree with the others and your efforts look good, especially considering the use of so0ft wood.

[Ed Wenger]

That’s looking pretty good, you definitely have the idea.  Poplar can be difficult to work with.  Make sure your gouges are nice and sharp.  Keep us posted.   Best,

      Ed

[BOB HILL]

Your efforts look great. Keep up the good work. You’ll only get better. Keep us posted.
Bob

[Tom Currie]

I agree that your test stock shows promise in design and execution. Using a V tool perpendicular to the grain will be the test for sharpness.

[bobw]

For “stabbing in” you really don’t need a full set of gouges.  You can make, in different widths, small elliptical/lozenge shaped tools with pointed end, not radius like a true ellipse.  1/8 inch might be a good starting width.  To use, stab in, move half the width of the tool and stab in again.  The curve of the tool allows you to follow a curved line.  You will find you can move quickly around a design.  This is not my design, Gary Brumfield showed me, and let me use his years ago.
Bob

[elkhorne]

bobw,
It would be great if you could post a photo of your small elliptical/lozenge shaped tools so PK1979 and others can get a good clear picture of what you are talking about. I’ve made some small curved chisels for wire inlay out of old hacksaw blades and sharpened them but I think your tools may be slightly different. Thanks.
elkhorne

[PK1979]

The idea I have in my head is kinda of a mini-straight chisel with either end tapered/rounded off? That would allow one to rock/roll the tool to "nibble" around curves? Or am I just missing it entirely?

How do you guys harden little custom tools (or do you at all?). I don't have a forge, so I'm pretty limited in my ability to work at temps above household oven range. It has to be doable with a torch or in an open charcoal fire, pretty much.

Might be fun to see SWMBO's reaction to me jury-rigging my ceramic grill into a forge, on second thought...

[elkhorne]

PK1979,
There are some very good craftsmen and metalsmiths on this forum that can hopefully chime in and give you and the rest of us some good small tool building techniques. I attended John Schipper’s carving class several years ago at Conner Prairie and he showed us a very inexpensive and effective technique. We all bought some inexpensive small screwdriver and needle file sets from Lowe’s and Walmart at the time. John showed us how to remove the “spinner” tops of the screwdriver handles and sharpen the small blades with sharpening stones. They were not very hard so we sharpened them frequently. He showed us how to use them to walk around a carving pattern line and then used small knives to remove the background around the elements. The small needle files were used as inexpensive riflers to smooth background. He heated them with a common propane torch and bent several needle files to allow the user to get into tight spaces. If I remember correctly, we did round the corners of the modified screwdriver chisels to make going around curves easier and smoother. Good luck and hope this gives you some other ideas for your carving tools.

[Dwshotwell]

I’d like to see some pictures of the tools described above as well.

PK, for hardening/tempering, someone posted a link to these You Tube videos the other day. The maker shows how to harden and temper with a propane torch and an oven. I just picked up some O1 steel today to give it a try.

[John Cotterall]

Your carving looks like your off to great start. I am fairly new to this also so I don’t have much expertise. Do you still live near Valley Forge? I work in King of Prussia. As someone else said The Gunmakers Fair is a great event. They have many classes throughout the weekend. It’s the last weekend in July. It’s only an hours drive from Valley Forge. I am definitely going one of the days. Be careful you may get interested in other hobbies like horn making and blacksmithing (haha). Also Dixon’s Muzzleloader Shop in Kempton, PA is a great experience. I just finished my first build with a preformed stock. My next project will be one of Kibler’s colonial rifles for a friend of mine. If there’s anything I could help with in my limited experience let me know. 🙂

[PK1979]

I'll have to look at those videos. 'Hobby creep' is always a dangerous temptation. But fun...

John, I no longer live in PA, I'm in MD a little ways NW of DC. But I know King of Prussia well; I still have family all around the NW suburbs of Philadelphia.
I'll have to see about some of these summer events. Family obligations and an 8 year old son take up most weekends between June and Sept. I seem to recall there's an event in York in the fall though...

[John Cotterall]

There may be an event in York or Lancaster or both in late summer/fall. Honestly there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this site who are generous with their knowledge. Keep us posted on your Kibler’s kit. Be patient and have fun 🙂

[BillPac]

I grind small inletting tools from square cut hardened nails.  Just keep them cool while grinding, they stay sharp well enough .
BillP

[J. Talbert]

Check out this Carving PowerPoint from Gary Brumfields website (flintriflesmith.com).
Just one of many gems there.

http://www.flintriflesmith.com/ToolsandTechniques/tools_and_techniques.htm

Hope that link works
Jeff

[bobw]

J. Tabert, thanks for the link.  I was also going to add it here.

The tool is really hard to get pictures of, but I did get one to come out pretty good.  I also drew an end view of what it looks like.  I have several different sizes depending on how tight the curves are.  No twisting or turning necessary with this tool.  I also included a picture of the carving that was stamped using Gary’s tool.  Gary actually took this picture at the end of the class.  In his picture, on the flintriflesmith site, in the 2004 pictures it looks like I’m working with his tool and there is also another picture of the same carving.
Bob

[bobw]

Not really sure you need to harden this tool although it will probably last longer if you do.  As small as it is, you can use a cheap small screw driver blade and grind it down.  No heat treat required.  Or, use tool steel like O-1, A-2 or W-1.  As small as these are, a gas stove will possibly get the tip red hot.  Quench and temper to blue and you are set.
Bob

[PK1979]

Very nice; it's hard to argue with those results.