Permalyn hardness after curing

[HighUintas]

How hard is a permalyn finish after it cures? Can you easily scratch or dent it with a fingernail?

[Kevin Houlihan]

When it's fully cured, it pretty tough stuff.  I have 2 rifles finished with Permalyn that I built 20 and 25 years ago and they still look good. Both guns have been out in rain, high heat and 10 deg. cold.  I hope that helps.
Kevin

[HighUintas]

Thanks. On the test pieces I did, they've been cured for a long time and I can still somewhat easily dent/scratch it with a fingernail but they do seem a little harder. I think the difference is that my test piece finishes weren't built up as much and were more dull in appearance, so it's much more noticeable and deeper dent/scratch on my stock.

I'm wondering if I should hang it up in the bright sun prior to handlings it much more or if now is the time to start embracing the dings and nicks. I don't know if the UV exposure helps cure permalyn like it does hardening oils, but I currently feel like I should take off my wedding ring before handling it.

[smallpatch]

Permalyn MUST be applied in VERY thin coats, and dried thoroughly between, or it may never cure.

[mikeyfirelock]

Have used Permalyn for a long time and will not use anything else……I’ve found it to be easy to use, durable and stable .  Guns I made years ago have shown no problems.

[wmrike]

I used Permalyn on a restocked L C Smith about 35 years ago that I use for hunting.  Still looks great.  No dings or scratches, but I am a little careful with my guns.  My experience with Permalyn is that it wants to be glossy.

The only stock finish that I would maybe feel comfortable purposefully digging a fingernail into would be that bowling ball finish Remington put/puts on their wood.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

If your application layers have been a little on the heavy side, the finish will build up and remain sort of gummy even though it feels dry to touch.  If it were mine, I would use 0000 steel wool and rub the stock down to the wood, removing all of the surface finish.  The wood will be now well sealed and the pores filled.  Clean off the dust with a soft cloth really well, and apply a coat of finish very sparingly on a square of flannel or old T shirt material.  You will be amazed and delighted how nice that application will look.  Let it cure for at least 24 hours, and apply another coat, very thin.  That will likely be all the finish your stock needs.

[HighUintas]

Thank you.

Gummy, is probably what I would call it. It feels dry, doesn't leave fingerprints, etc. But it is very very soft. The cloth I had in a container for applications seems to be dried ... But it is gummy, like rubber!

I think that I did get my applications too thick despite me thinking that they were thin, and my test pieces likely were thinner coats... I do like those better. 

[Jim Kibler]

It’s not uncommon for finish to be applied too thick.  I think the appeal of a wet and shiny look makes this happen.  I always tell customers to spread the finish as far as you can.  A number of very thin coats are best.

[snapper]

I think you have to keep in mind that your goal should not be a thick layer like you would do on a bar top with epoxy.

Fleener

[flehto]

I use only the Sealer and apply 2 soak in coats w/ a 10  min  soak in time. Any excess is rubbed down to the wood w/ 0000 steel wool. when dry. When completely dry, Wahkon Bay Trucoat is applied sparingly w/ the fingers until it feels dry { it isn't, but feels dry} The final effect is that the surface looks like there isn't any finish on it.......Fred

[Curtis]

Apply several coats of Permalyn sealer, it is very thin and penetrates deep into the wood and will harden slightly soft wood.  Then either continue with the sealer as a finish or put on a couple light coats of the regular finish Thinly.  It is always best to experiment with some discards from whatever stock wood you are using.

Curtis

[Marcruger]

Our late Mad Monk Bill Knight talked to me at length about Permalyn.  He allowed that he had seem a couple of Permalyn finished guns that "sparkled" or looked "metallic" in the sun.  On close inspection, the finish had microscopically shattered due to differential expansion going from one temp to the other.  Usually coming into a warm room from being cold outside.  The wood expands, the finish cannot keep up.  The key is to simply never allow that to happen.  Keep the gun in a case and let the case slowly warm or cool the gun. 

Bill said that the Chambers finish acts exactly the same on application, but will not shatter or craze due to temperature changes.  Apparently Bill was consulted when that finish was created?   I think I recall that right.  Jim Chambers can correct me if I am wrong. 

So to the OP, I think of Permalyn normally has a hard, not soft finish. 

I hope this helps.   God Bless,   Marc

[Jim Kibler]

I’ve heard this finish crazing story before, but never seem to see any examples…. With all of this finish used, I think it would be apparent if this were a problem.  I don’t buy it.

I’ve used it on high end builds and know a number of other respected professional builders who have used it regularly with no problems. 

I think this is hogwash.

Permalyn is durable.  This can’t be said for some other popular finishes.  At least in my experience.

[HighUintas]

Well I'm happy to report that I steel wooled it off down to the wood and redid it. I was worried about getting too much on again, so I hand rubbed it on.

Steel wool and maroon 3m pad to remove finish (it took some elbow grease!)
Had to apply a little more stain, let sit overnight
Finger rubbed in tiny amounts over the whole stock last night (very very very thin!)

Today, it has a much nicer look. Quite a bit less gloss. I put it in the sun for several hours this evening.
It does seem quite a bit harder than the old finish already.

I'll likely do 1 more hand rubbed coat tonight to even out the gloss in various spots.

I'll get a picture up sometime after it's done with the metal finished