Author Topic: Virginia Long Rifle ?  (Read 1950 times)

Offline Skirmisher

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Virginia Long Rifle ?
« on: August 11, 2023, 09:58:35 PM »
I recently picked up a well-used flintlock rifle that I initially thought hailed from Pennsylvania.  Upon doing a bit of research, I conclude it is Virginian, more specifically from the lower Shenandoah Valley area.  Could be a product of the Sheetz clan but there are details that don't entirely fit any particular maker, at least to my eye.
So, here I am looking for opinions from those more knowledgeable than myself, as to is most likely to have built this unsigned piece, and about when?
This is a heavy rifle with a .556" caliber, 42.0" long swamped barrel.  The barrel 1.12" at the breech, tapers to about 1.025" at 35 inches, then flares to1.10" at the muzzle.

There is some very nicely done  relief paneling along the forearm and it appears as if there was once some paneling around the lock paels but otherwise no carving.  The patchbox is ingraved and features 4 cutouts.  The box still has remnants of animal fat now heavily oxidized.
The gun has set triggers that seem original to the piece and the trigger guard is somewhat narrow.
The sideplate features prominent horns, a detail seen on only a few rifles from this area.  The lock is clearly a replacement, but done long ago.  It would appear that the current lock was in use on this rifle for many, many years.
Finally, the unusually large .556" bore is rifle with 7 deep (.024") round bottom grooves.  The grooves are a bit dirty looking but the bore is generally bright and quite serviceable.

Any thoughts you might offer are welcome.  Rifles of this type are a bit out of my range of experience.


















Offline Mattox Forge

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2023, 10:16:28 PM »
You got a nice rifle there!

Which show was this and who was the seller if you don't mind me asking? I am interested because of the 2nd model Virginia Manufactory rifle at the bottom of the rack.

Mike

Offline Skirmisher

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2023, 10:27:48 PM »
That is part of my table at last week's Long Rifle Show at Princeton, Illinois.  My emphasis is pre-1861 militaries and that 1821-dated Virginia Manufactory Rifle was just part of my show and tells.  I got my hands on that other Virginia flinter just the day before the show.
The VM rifle will hopefully stay with me awhile longer.

Offline Avlrc

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2023, 11:14:14 PM »
The piercings on the patchbox looks like John Jacob Sheetz, Shepherdstown WV. See page 140 Gunsmiths of Virginia. However the engraving on the lid reminds me of John or Henry Sheets from Staunton,Virginia. . Thanks for sharing.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2023, 11:19:54 PM by Avlrc »

Offline Mattox Forge

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2023, 11:24:20 PM »
Very nice! I have been looking for one of those VM rifles. There are some out there, but a lot are smooth bored. Does your still have rifling? I have a couple of Rifle Shoppe lock castings sets and I'd like to make one of the second models like you have and a copy of the very early 1803 first model with the brass "Don't Tread on Me" patch box and the traditional rifle styling

Mike







Offline Skirmisher

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2023, 11:46:34 PM »
Yes, it is rifled and is .46" caliber.  There is a nasty spot in the bore which has prevented me from shooting it.  Bad welding spots are common in VM guns.

Offline Mattox Forge

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2023, 12:25:24 AM »
For discussion here are some images

Gunsmiths of Virginia.
Shepherdstown John Jacob Sheetz. The shape of the patch box is nearly identical to yours.


J Sheetz, page 139


Attributed to John Sheetz of Stanton, Va
This patch box outline is again almost identical





Another attributed to John Lauck with a similarly shaped patch box, but lacking the forward piercing. Page 40 Longrifles of Virginia


These are from KRA Volume I, Issue V Longrifles of the Shenandoah Valley

Attributed to J[ohn?] Sheetz of Staunton? I would agree as the signature looks almost identical to the signature on page 139 of Gunsmiths of Virginia
The patch box outline is different, but the side plates on both of these has the distinctive horns yours has.






Another attributed to John Sheetz




Mike


« Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 12:45:27 AM by Mattox Forge »

Offline Mattox Forge

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2023, 12:28:05 AM »
Yes, it is rifled and is .46" caliber.  There is a nasty spot in the bore which has prevented me from shooting it.  Bad welding spots are common in VM guns.

That is a shame that you can't shoot it. Perhaps the bad welding is why so many are smooth bored.
What is the rifling profile?

Mike

Offline Mattox Forge

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2023, 12:36:48 AM »
Does your possibly Sheetz rifle have a star on the cheek piece?
Both the John Sheetz of Stanton have a similar star inlays. Also panel carving details on both are much like yours.








Mike

Offline Mattox Forge

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2023, 12:43:38 AM »
The piercings on the patchbox looks like John Jacob Sheetz, Shepherdstown WV. See page 140 Gunsmiths of Virginia. However the engraving on the lid reminds me of John or Henry Sheets from Staunton,Virginia. . Thanks for sharing.

Is there a known family connection between these three makers? Henry and John of Staunton seem to be very similar in style, but Henry might be later. This Henry Sheetz rifle from Issue V Shenandoah Valley Rifles has clearly been a percussion gun from the start.










Offline DGB

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2023, 12:51:33 AM »
Skirm.,
Check your messages,
Dave B

Offline Skirmisher

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2023, 01:16:38 AM »
For those who asked, there are no inlays on the cheekpiece.  This is a relatively plain rifle.  The feature that most amazes me is the very large .55 caliber bore.  Whisker's books ignore the all -important issue of bore size but most of the Sheetz rifles seem to have been of much smaller caliber.  This is the largest original rifled bore I ever saw on an.American long rifle.(My exposure to the has been admittedly limited).

Offline Avlrc

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2023, 01:20:07 AM »
I have a few Virginia rifles, and we find some 50s in the earlier rifles. I mean 1800-1820. After that mostly small.

Offline Avlrc

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2023, 01:24:49 AM »

Offline mbriggs

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2023, 07:26:42 PM »
Skirmishes,

Please tell me more about the Davidson North Carolina School longriflre that is in the middle of the display stand on your first photo.  Is it signed? Is it for sale? I would enjoy seeing additional photographs of it. My email address is mbriggs@callcoverage.com if you would rather not post them here.

Thanks,

Michael Briggs
C. Michael Briggs

Offline Skirmisher

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Re: Virginia Long Rifle ?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2023, 02:23:46 AM »
Michael-  It is not signed but I have presumed it to be a Henry Ledford.  I have had it some 35 years and I will take more pictures.