Author Topic: Trigger guard eng  (Read 1293 times)

Offline flatsguide

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Trigger guard eng
« on: August 20, 2023, 06:30:20 PM »
An inked sketch of a pattern for the trigger guard of my Jim Chambers English Sporting Rifle. I’m going to try a 5 petal flower and see what that looks like. When did gun engraving in Great Britain start to use the English scroll design?
Thanks Richard



Offline T*O*F

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Re: Trigger guard eng
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2023, 07:28:19 PM »
That is known as "bouquet and scroll" and first originated during the Victorian era as jewelry ornament.  It's usually incorporated as a stand alone panel surrounded by large English scroll, or it can be incorporated into a large English scroll pattern.
Dave Kanger

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Offline PhDBrewer

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Re: Trigger guard eng
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2023, 09:56:43 PM »
Drawing is nice. I think it would fit the period. If you can draw it you can engrave it!
Please let us see the finished work.

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Trigger guard eng
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2023, 11:01:11 PM »
Thanks Dave, this is what I call “rose and scroll”.
The Victorian period started,I think in the 1830’s much later than my English flint rifle. When did this style of English engraving start?

Brewer, thanks! I enjoyed meeting and talking with you at the CLA show. I’ll post photos of the engraving...just have to screw up the courage to start..
CheersRichard

Offline PhDBrewer

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Re: Trigger guard eng
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2023, 12:41:16 AM »
Thanks Richard. I met many wonderful people at the show. Seeing a name on a tag and trying to relate that to their username for this forum has left me drawing a blank... I should do as Ken Prather... use a real good photo of myself for my avatar and my given name as my username... that was why I wrote my forum name above my name tag at the show.
All will be fine. Get a couple of pieces of practice metal and start practicing! You drawing shoes that you have the hand eye coordination.
William

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Trigger guard eng
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2023, 12:46:18 AM »
Quote
When did this style of English engraving start?
I have Marcus Hunt's training book and dvd.  Your picture is included in it.  I get the impression that it started on guns around 1885 or so.  It's mostly seen on high end double guns from Rigby, Boss, Jeffrey, Chas. Lancaster, Churchill. etc.  There are two types of fine English scrollwork, small and large. It was a method to achieve full coverage on a gun with minimal cutting very rapidly.  The backbones were done first and the leaves used only 2 basic cuts.
Dave Kanger

If religion is opium for the masses, the internet is a crack, pixel-huffing orgy that deafens the brain, numbs the senses and scrambles our peer list to include every anonymous loser, twisted deviant, and freak as well as people we normally wouldn't give the time of day.
-S.M. Tomlinson

Offline flatsguide

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Re: Trigger guard eng
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2023, 01:28:46 AM »
Thanks Dave, I have two of Marcus’s castings. I have heard of his book and DVD but have not been able to find anyone that has one to sell. Can you take a photo of the engraving that looks like my drawing and post it? It would interest me to compare them.
Thanks Richard

Offline smart dog

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Re: Trigger guard eng
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2023, 01:44:45 AM »
Hi Richard,
I am going to relate a story about English engraving.  I must warn you that I cannot remember the source.  I think it was Lynton Mckenzie but I am not sure.  Throughout the 18th century, firearms engraving in Britain was largely by hammer and chisel unless the metal was very soft into which hand pushed gravers could cut details and shading.  Hammer and chisel became even more important near the end of the century because the fashion for bluing and browning all the iron and steel parts required deeper cutting to enable it to show very well.  However, by the 1830s or so, many of the experienced hammer and chisel men were old and retiring, and the younger engravers could make a lot more money engraving copperplate, particularly for the printing industry.  Copperplate was engraved by hand pushed gravers so the number of hammer and chisel men to work for the firearms industry declined precipitously.  As a result, engravers employed by the gun makers were increasingly trained as copperplate cutters and the designs on firearms had to get lighter and more intricate to make up for a lack of depth.  This situation enventually resulted in the fine English scroll work we see in mid 18th century British guns.

dave
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Trigger guard eng
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2023, 03:33:55 PM »
Lynton McKenzie was a friend and a big help to me when I got interested in making the fancy mechanisms seen in the best locks from England.He loaned complete locks to me and took them out of fine guns to do it.He was an inspiration for me and others to do better if
for no other reason than personal satisfaction and knowing it.It's been 25 years since cancer took him from us and I still miss him and the'delightful Australian accent on the phone.One other lock he loaned to me was a Henry Nock flint lock from the right side of a fine Nock SxS and I was able to use it to make a good mechanism for a flintlock that went mostly to Germany for pistols made in the shop of Helmut Mohr in Mayen/Hausen.I had traded some finished locks to TOW for moulds to make the plate,hammers and frizzens for this project and
later used the L&R small Manton for this job.Getting the best help available is a big PLUS in any endeavor and Lynton McKenzie was that
help to me and no doubt,others.
Bob Roller





Offline flatsguide

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Re: Trigger guard eng
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2023, 06:44:51 AM »
Dave (smartdog) coincidently I just read that story not too long ago, can’t recall where though. I’m 85 so I got a good excuse ha ha.
Thanks Dave