HAWKEN RIFLE BUILD MAYBE

[Mike Brooks]

I'd go jump off a cliff before I made one of those things,

just my humble opinion of course, you were asking for opinions right? Why don't you go with a Dimmick or one of the other nifty St. louis makers? Set a new trend, get out of the ol Harkins rut so to speak.

I have seen and handled at least 4 original full stock Hawken guns. Very unimpressive, Flat as a board and about as sexy as a crow bar. None were flint of course.   If you absolutely MUST create this thing do not put a Siler flintlock on it. You're probably stuck with the later english locks that are available. Chambers or Kiblers late Ketlands or the Davis late Ketland. L&R makes a late english lock but it's really big and I could never get it to work reliably.   I'm already starting to have a panic attack just thinking about this.....

[Mike Brooks]

Wait a little bit as Kibler already dropped the bomb he's going to start making these abominations. He'll have all the hard work done for you.

[Daniel Coats]

   HAWKEN SHOP HAS BREECH PLUGS, I THINK I'LL GO WITH A RICE Barrel AND FULL LENGTH STOCK, .FLINT LOCK A MUST, ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS MATTER IS WELCOME.

Rice 15/16 straight.54 caliber 38 inches with long tang installed. Chambers Late Ketland flintlock MBS has one on hand with a brass lock plate in stock. Consider brass hardware or mix of brass and iron for a unique gun so you don't see a bunch of rifles just like it!

Think Appalachian mountain rifle with a couple Hawken features.

[snrub47]

I stocked 2 from blank, a half stock in walnut and a full in maple. Half stock was GM 1 inch 58 cal with hook breech. Many hour of work to make it all fit, riveted the under rib. Nice gun but too much recoil.
Full stock 15/16 54 cal. 34.5 long fixed breech flint. Weight and balance is perfect for me and is a great shooter and a pleasure to carry.

[Bob Roller]

Log Cabin probably owns the moulds that made the external parts for a Ketland and several were sold for use on the so called "flint Hawken,
I had to use the Maslin top jaw but it has a double throated "cock" and a big pan.A man in our local club had an old rifle with a lock identical to it and it was plainly marked KETLAND.As far as I know I am the only one that made locks with the available parts.Maybe someone on this forum has one as a loose item or on a long ago build.The last 6 I made went to a female shooter in Switzerland.The first ones I made had the old style slip and slide mechanism and it worked well but I did make a linked tumbler that was better.The round tail L&R with the double throated "cock"and another mechanism would be a fine one.

Bob Roller

[HighUintas]

Here is a full stock J&S from 1845. Owned by John Brown. Notice the straight long tang and comma style breech. It's not pictured but does have the full stock type cheek piece. It's a very big gun.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=71606.msg715411#msg715411

[Crow Choker]

Well IMO, FWIW, I think the Hawken style is nice looking. I like the half stock better than the full, but the heavy duty Hawkin has its place. Ifin I'd been back in the day during the fur trade, I'd had a tough Hawken style over the Pennsylvania slender lite-weight any day. Sort of like comparing a fast, quick heavy duty running back to a wiry, fast, quick wide receiver. (FWIW I quit watching football 3-4 years ago.) While I wouldn't build one from scratch, I may someday take on a kit, a Kibler would be nice.

[Daryl]

An interesting rifle, noted as .75 calibre made by "Krider" in Philadelphia, 1852.
See any English influence?

[Bob Roller]

Lots of English influence.A 3/4" bore would be a top of the line hunting rifle.
BobRoller

[Daryl]

Taylor made my best friend one (.75), in 1986, after he saw my 14 bore. By then, Track had in the 1 1/8" Square breech plugs.
I wonder if Taylor would replace the one on my rifle with one of those, but expect they no longer have any.

[Bsharp]

Daryl, an English Hawkin, and a big bore!

Do you have any dimensions of the drop and size of the butt plate?

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Daryl's rifle, and also the one he is referring to above, are both English sporting rifles, the latter one after James Purdy.  They both have shotgun style buttplates - not Hawken.
The biggest bored Hawken I've made is .62 cal.  My personal Hawken rifle is .62 cal and I shoot 127 gr. FFg GOEX routinely without discomfort.
I am becoming enamoured by the Ashley .69 cal rifle, and also the Brown one, described above, in .66 cal...maybe another Hawken in my future?

[Daniel Coats]

Taylor build either one or both!!

[Steeltrap]

Came across this searching for something else:   http://iowablackpowderfederation.net/news/2018/An%20Original%20Hawken%20Rifle%202018.pdf

[HighUintas]

Came across this searching for something else:   http://iowablackpowderfederation.net/news/2018/An%20Original%20Hawken%20Rifle%202018.pdf

The link doesn't seem to want to open.

[HighUintas]

Daryl's rifle, and also the one he is referring to above, are both English sporting rifles, the latter one after James Purdy.  They both have shotgun style buttplates - not Hawken.
The biggest bored Hawken I've made is .62 cal.  My personal Hawken rifle is .62 cal and I shoot 127 gr. FFg GOEX routinely without discomfort.
I am becoming enamoured by the Ashley .69 cal rifle, and also the Brown one, described above, in .66 cal...maybe another Hawken in my future?

I've considered making a copy of the Brown Hawken..... But I don't think it would be possible to get measurements and that is not a rifle I would lug around the mountains. It would be like carrying a fence post around

[Steeltrap]

Came across this searching for something else:   http://iowablackpowderfederation.net/news/2018/An%20Original%20Hawken%20Rifle%202018.pdf

The link doesn't seem to want to open.

Huh. I tried it and it works fine.

[Dphariss]

   JUST THINKING OF TRYING MY HAND AT BULDING A HAWKEN RIFLE INSTEAD OF A LONGRIFLE, MAYBE BE A FLINTER INSTEAD OF A PRECUSSION, ANY THOUGHTS?

The sole known flintlock survivor looks just like the fullstock S Hawken mountain rifle it is. By the mid-late 1830s the mountain rifles had gone to the long tang/long trigger plate configuration. By the late 40s they had grown everywhere and after Jakes death (if not before) they really got  chunky.
The rifles of the heyday of the beaver trade  got used really hard/long and likely many were broken and restocked and maybe converted to percussion as well, so in a rebuild maybe only using the barrel or most of it. Remembering that even in 1840 many still did not trust the percussion system. In Roberts “The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle” there is an instance of a hunter in the East being chased by wolves who lost his caps while reloading and spent the night in a tree till the wolves left.  And early caps were not all that reliable or consistent if I am properly informed. The percussion cap as we know it was a product of the late 1820s. Now I gotta re-read Hanson, who if I recall right, states that the Hawken shop was buying flintlock locks well into the “percussion era”. Snowing, roads iced over. If I was younger I would be Elk hunting today. But Now I am lazy and running 50-60 miles of snow covered ice does not appeal to me much any more.

[Bob Roller]

Making rifles has never been my BIG interest but I have made ONE Hawken and ONE English long range rifle and the English style of breech and the shotgun buttstock makes more sense.I wonder why the crescent butt plate came into being and carried over into powerful repeating  rifles.The Hawken was a scratch build and I agree with Mike Brooks.A lot of locks and triggers for the Hawken have come from my shop and we are grateful for the sales and I might make a few more triggers but have only two 10"bars left.I used no castings and have seen these bars twisted enough to mess up a building job.My triggers are not replicas but are representative types and my locks did go far beyond any
used in old St.Louis back in "the day".
Bob Roller

[Leatherbark]

I wonder why the crescent butt plate came into being and carried over into powerful repeating  rifles.

Bob Roller

The only reason I can surmise is that in a heavy rifle the crescent buttplate helps me lock the rifle in my arm and support the beast for offhand shooting. 

Bob

[Hood]

I did it……so can you.  Built this for my youngest brother many years ago

mikeyfirelock

Beautiful looking gun! Wow! I could never make one that nice!!

[Hood]

I stocked 2 from blank, a half stock in walnut and a full in maple. Half stock was GM 1 inch 58 cal with hook breech. Many hour of work to make it all fit, riveted the under rib. Nice gun but too much recoil.
Full stock 15/16 54 cal. 34.5 long fixed breech flint. Weight and balance is perfect for me and is a great shooter and a pleasure to carry.

Very nice! I really like the full stock flintlock!

[Dennis Glazener]

I did it……so can you.  Built this for my youngest brother many years ago

mikeyfirelock

Beautiful looking gun! Wow! I could never make one that nice!!

The first thing you need to do is stop with the "I can't attitude" and start with I CAN do that. If you continue the "I can't" then you never will!
Kind regards,
Dennis

[Bob Roller]

Many years ago I could do that level of inletting but now it would probably look like something done with a hatchet,
Again comparing the English style rifles and the Hawken,the English style to me is much better looking and invites a
better quality of lock and sights plus finer wood.
Bob Roller

[Hood]

I did it……so can you.  Built this for my youngest brother many years ago

mikeyfirelock
[/quote]

Beautiful looking gun! Wow! I could never make one that nice!!
[/quote]

The first thing you need to do is stop with the "I can't attitude" and start with I CAN do that. If you continue the "I can't" then you never will!
Kind regards,
Dennis
[/quote]

Thanks Dennis, I appreciate the comment.