Locks

[Pukka Bundook]

I had read many moons ago, that both sides at Waterloo used the same flints, mined at Brandon.
Lot of water has gone under the bridge since I was down those mines at Grimes Graves..

[smart dog]

Hi Richard,
Brandon is where the best English flints were mined.

dave

[Pukka Bundook]

Indeed Dave,
Huge nodules of transparent black flint, the sort that Hawker recommended.

[Steeltrap]

So, since this is the subject of locks, what do you guys use to (the easiest method) remove the casting and polish up the inside of the flash pan?

[Steeltrap]

Well.....someone (Jim Kibler) gave a warning about using the L&R lock. I have other L&R's that work fine....and I blame myself as I should have scrutinized the lock much more when I first received it. And I'm not trying to turn this post into an L&R bashing, but hopefully more of a warning to anyone else who purchases this lock to give it a very thorough once (or twice) look over before you invest time in it.

In fact, I had to send it back when I first received it as the bridle was incorrectly drilled. L&R replaced that.

Now, this lock takes a smaller (5/8 length) flint and all I had at the time was 3/4". That still doesn't make up for my failed scrutiny of the lock when I got it back "fixed".

I received my shorter flints yesterday, and didn't get a chance until last night to install one. The lock sparks great......but then I notice the cock doesn't line up with the frizzen.    At first i thought i was crazy...then I started to examine the "squareness" of the pan to the lock plate, etc. It was late last night so I set it aside.

So, now I've determined the frizzen attachment hole has been drilled incorrectly. Yeah...you think I would have noticed this when I was filling the lock, removing the "water proof" lug on the pan cover etc. But I didn't.

So, now I will again contact L&R (who did a quick turn around the first time I sent it back) for a replacement pan\frizzen. I thought of drilling out the existing hole, slugging a bushing in it, then drill the hole square, but I got other things to do.

I placed the white line on the picture to emphasize how far off the pan cover\frizzen is from square.



Here's another pic with the cock lowered to rest on the frizzen

[rich pierce]

Which model L&R lock? I see a small roller on the frizzen toe, I think. Durs Egg?

[Bob Roller]

Which model L&R lock? I see a small roller on the frizzen toe, I think. Durs Egg?

Also L&R Manton has one.
Bob Roller

[Steeltrap]

It’s the Manton.

[Dphariss]

I really like the design of teh L&R “Manton” which its not from what I have read. I beleive that its actually a Stoudenour(sic) but this means it was probably made for them by a “lock filer”. This is a great pistol lock. The design does not jar to pistol hardly at all when it “fires”.
However, in recent year the quality has “slipped” at L&R.
I have not used the “1700” flintlock in sometime. I have 2 of the percussion versions in a drawer for s project I need to get back too, these seem to be OK. I met a guy at the range that had a L&R on the rifle and it was unusable. It was so far “out” that the sear could bypass the fly.
Dang I hate this. But it is what it is.
The last “1700”/Manton flint I used was on this pistol.



However:
The tumbler hole in the plate was drilled at an ANGLE so that the sear nose and notches were misaligned.








Having a nice little wire welder can be a great asset.
And in my experience it is better to just fix it and get on with the build than to bother sending it back etc.
Aas a friend stated one day in conversation about such things; “You bought a casting and you did not buy a welder to go with it?” But I already had the welder.
It comes in handy for many things.

[JV Puleo]

Making a further comment on locks, I have always shot original guns. I've never even owned a reproduction. My favorite flint rifle was made by Henry Pratt of Roxbury, Mass. sometime after 1816 because it has one of the "Allport late with Ketland" marked locks. This was simply a better quality export grade lock. Not the cheapest but certainly not "best London" quality. In the small circle of shooters I once belonged to I was the only one that used an original rather than something newly made. My friends invariably suffered frequent miss-fires...I almost never did. Their flints wore out after 12 to 15 shots (and they assumed this was normal)...mine lasted far longer. In fact, I think I've only had two or three flints in that rifle in 30 years (although I haven't shot in a long time). None of my friends had a Bob Roller lock or I might have drawn a different conclusion but at the time I surmised that there was a great deal more to lock geometry and the balance of the springs than was understood by 99% of the lockmakers. I find it gratifying to see that this area is now being explored.

What I find most interesting is that tests I made years ago with original locks showed that the cheap ones functioned as well as the expensive ones. Perhaps they weren't as durable or quite as fast but when new any of them would have worked better than most the reproductions readily available 30 years ago.

[Steeltrap]

I contacted L&R and told him of the problem. After some discussion he wanted me to send it back. I was reluctant to do so as I don't want to pay for another shipping and still be unsure of what I'm getting back.

So they are sending me a frizzen casting that will require the hole to be drilled and the frizzen to be hardened.

[Steeltrap]

This Manton lock is a troublesome little item. I bought the recommended 5/8" English flints for it. If I install the flint bevel side down, the flint won't allow the pan to shut. If I flip the flint, the top jaw will contact the frizzen first....and still the flint will not allow the pan to close. I've placed leather on the top and bottom of the flint, but I'm using two pieces so the flint contacts the Jaw screw. (allows the flint to be as far back as possible).

I've read some other post on this lock and it appears the upper jaw will need filed back so it won't contact the frizzen.

Others have stated to heat the jaw and bend it so the jaw flats run parallel with the bolster when the lock is at half cock.

I am going to remove some material from the upper jaw. I may also remove about .200 from the jaw screw to allow the flint to set back further. That may be enough to solve the "pan open" problem.

I have a few Lyman replacement frizzers for my old T\C lock. I took the lyman and put it in the Manton. The frizzen aligns much better, but to use the Lyman it would need some filing done at the screw hole to clear the lock. Different color anyway and I don't really want to use that. But it does confirm the L&R pan cover hole was drilled incorrectly.

Live and learn. My next planned pistol build will have a Chambers.

[Craig Wilcox]

Dave, et al - many thanks for the discussion!