London Percussion Pistol

[SDH]

I just listed this pistol for sale but thought I might show a bunch of pics here for wider interest. I hope this is Okay? I think this is an interesting pistol and think viewers might as well.The barrel is marked Smith London and the Lock Smith. Straight octagon, 890", 6", smooth bore, .525". What do you think about vintage? Know of Smith?

[Niall]

I would date it at c.1830 . Looks good in very nice condition. Possibly Samuel Smith, Leicester Square.

Maybe it's the light but does the lock bridle  have a crack in it?....You know how that happens

[SDH]

The lock bridle does appear to have a tiny crack. I did not notice this until I saw the photo. I have no idea how, when or why it cracked. Thanks for your dating suggestion. There are a few different Smith's in my London Gunmakers book but no way I can distinguish which might be the maker. SDH

[SDH]

I want to associate that style of guard finial with the late flintlock era, or very early percussion. Since this pistol is London marked I presume it would be a current trend? Rather than a hold-over a provincial make might have. Comments?
Does 1830 era seem likely?
The overall condition amazes me for 200 years old.

[Niall]

The lock and bolster interface looks rather awkward and that would suggest the early percussion changeover from the early 1820's. The lock 
mortice actually looks as though it started off for a flintlock This lock has evolved a bit from the flintlock era so a few years later....say 1830. The lock has only one sidenail and no hook retainer arrangement on the front; again a late flintlock feature.

The crack in the bridle  possibly occurred from the pistol being snapped without a nipple in place. The divot in the wood under the mainspring/swivel connection would suggest that as well.   

[Martin S.]

What is the white spot just below the nipple on the side of the bolster?

Also, how does one remove the screw holding the hammer on?  I don't understand the screw slot with what looks like a screw shank in the middle?

[SDH]

The "white spot" is a platinum blow-out plug, sort of a safety for an overload, etc. These sometimes had a tiny vent hole drill in the center, this one does not. The breech band is also platinum identified by the lack of tarnish. With age silver shows a blackish tarnish beginning to show on the wedge plates. As I understand it, platinum had recently come into use in this era as a commercial and decorative precious metal. Platinum show no tarnish after 200 years on this pistol.

The tumber, instead of have a threaded hole for a screw on is outboard end, has a shaft threaded for a "nut" to tighten the hammer down on the tumbler's outboard end. This "nut" can be removed with a very well fitting U blade screwdriver.

 Another quality feature of the lock is the sliding tumbler block safety behind the hammer. On the backside of the lock you can see a notch in the rear of the tumbler and a small cover plate over the sear spring. This is a hold-over from quality flintlocks.

These features could help pin down the era of the pistol but I am not knowledgeable enough to employ them.
SDH

[Pukka Bundook]

As Niall says, it's a late flintlock, converted to percussion.
The sliding lock seems to lack its guts.
It's a nice pistol, but with just "Smith" hard to track down.
Samuel and Charles S did V high end work.

I have what is in essence the same pistol in 17 bore by 'Smith"
I'd put them both in the 1820's as flints, and both converted.

The "Bun Nut' is a nice touch, and a bifurcated screwdriver has to be made up to dismount the cock.
(Still called a cock at that time)
Very nice pistol, but in the early days of conversion.
Mine is merely by the "drum and nipple"  method.  Yours is nicer!






Note,
Yours maybe has not lost it's safety guts, just a different bridle!

[SDH]

No argument, I think my "Smith" pistol was built as  percussion gun at the very end of the flintlock period. There is no inlet for a cock "rest".

[JTR]

I see nothing to say the Smith pistol was ever a flint. As I see it, Percussion all the way.
John

[Avlrc]

I see nothing to say the Smith pistol was ever a flint. As I see it, Percussion all the way.
John

Definitely

[Pukka Bundook]

A French cock does not require any indents for the cock to rest on the lock plate.

My pistol too shows no signs of the hammer(frizzen) spring  filled holes, yet is quite obviously a conversion.
Identical T-guard finial.

[SDH]

Pukka,
Thanks for your addition to the post.
I'd love to see a picture of the "Identical T-guard finial" and a close-up of the lock plate. The two pistol certainly could be by the same Smith who was obviously working in that time period.

[Pukka Bundook]

SD,
I will try and get photos for you.
These are the only ones I have at present.
It seems I am having trouble getting photos off my phone onto this site.
It says they download, but do not show up!

Best,
R.







The last pic shows the pistol as it came, but you can just make out the t-guard finial.

Will try and get pics soon, and can Pm them rather than mess up your thread!

[JTR]

My pistol too shows no signs of the hammer(frizzen) spring  filled holes,

Except for the obvious filled in hole for the frizzen screw....

[Pukka Bundook]

Indeed, JT.

In the quote I was talking about the hammer (frizzen) spring hole. not showing inside or out as far as I can see.

[SDH]

The more phone pics I see of your pistol the less it looks similar to the Smith I posted. The lock signature looks like an entirely different style, a more slanted font, the engraving shows no similarity, the little I can see of the tguard finial it look quite different. Maybe try a camera for photos?

[Pukka Bundook]

SD,

In the above I told you I cannot post photos  here from my phone.
The pictures I posted above are camera photographs, Old, but that is what they are.

The picture with three pistols was taken by my friend and agent back home in the UK.

Re signature appearing slightly more slanted;

Were you under the impression that gunmakers at this time engraved their own locks?

  Locks were bought in, even by the very best, and came with the name stipulated.
Lock filers, finishers and engravers were all out-work or peddled scheme.
Engraving;
Q,
Did you expect that engraving will be the same if from the same house?

As an example, I had a quick look through the first few pages of W. Keith and David Back's book, "Griffin & Tow and William Bailes"

The first 20 Griffin fowling pieces I looked at were all engraved differently.  Some have similarities, but not the same.

All the very best,
Richard.

Edited to add a Phone pic of the T-Guard finial.
I sent the pic to my wife so she could send it to my email!
No email on my phone.

[Bob Roller]

The lock bridle does appear to have a tiny crack. I did not notice this until I saw the photo. I have no idea how, when or why it cracked. Thanks for your dating suggestion. There are a few different Smith's in my London Gunmakers book but no way I can distinguish which might be the maker. SDH

That crack will happen when the lock is off the gun and then cocked and the sear pushed up to release the hammer.
It also looks like someone replace the link from the tumbler to the mainspring and had to make a cut in the bottom
of the lock mortise was done to accommodate it.The lock has a very basic style of lock mechanism with good workmanship
other than the link.That is still a nice pistol that has been poorly handled probably long ago.
Bob Roller