These are both original rifles, and appear to have shortened barrels. I'd suggest before we do any more guessing at the origins of these rifles, that you provide additional photos, taken directly over the guns, so their stock shape is not distorted by the angled shots. If possible, stand directly over the guns and shoot straight down on them. Good views, taken straight over them, of the front and back sides (from butt plate up to about 10" past lock plate area), will better assist us in identifying possible regions of manufacture, and approximate mfg. dates, which will probably end up being in the late 1840s to 1850s era.
Please check for any maker's marks or signatures on the top flats of the barrels several inches behind the rear sight. If present, let us know what you can read, or decipher. I'd like to see a picture of the tang, on the rear end of barrel, or each rifle.
The name on the lock plate has nothing to do with who made the rifle or its location. These later guns used commercial locks usually imported from England in large quantities and later stamped with the name of the hardware store wholeselling or retailing them. These guns may well be from the midwest, but could be from a number of states, so we really need to take a closer look at them, if you can provide additinal photos. Hope this helps. Shelby Gallien
