Research for a Long Rifle

[owenpf]

I am new to this forum and long rifle building.  I want to build a long rifle that has some heritage/family significance.  I can trace my family back to 1768, a farm called greenfield at Clinchburg near Saltville Washington County Virginia. 

I would like to build a rifle that would have been appropriate for that time and location.  I have the recommended books from this website( Ehrig, Buchele, Shumway, Alexander, Kindig) somewhere I saw a chart that showed long rifles by county but I can't find it. 

If anybody could point me in the right direction, perhaps you know of the chart or may have info on how I can identify an appropriate long rifle.
Thanks,
Owen

[Bill of the 45th]

Owen, first off welcome.  In the 1760's time frame, and being a farmer.  The family gun would probably be a fowler/musket used as a militia arm.  If you are wanting a rifle, I would look at the 1780's/90's time frame.  For that area the English fowler would be an ideal choice, and that brings to mind a Chambers kit.  Just my two cents worth, and I'm sure others will chime in with much more info.  You've started in the right direction with the books you have, and somebody will be able to send you to the correct pages.  This forum will keep you on the straight, and narrow.

Bill

[Dennis Glazener]

I am new to this forum and long rifle building.  I want to build a long rifle that has some heritage/family significance.  I can trace my family back to 1768, a farm called greenfield at Clinchburg near Saltville Washington County Virginia.

I doubt that you would find a better example that #124 in Shumway's Rifles of Colonial America often referred to as RCA. I am not sure I would add the "carving" but the rest of the gun is absolutely right for that time and location.
Dennis

[Ed Wenger]

Hey Owen,

     Welcome aboard!  I don't disagree with what Bill said, but there were certainly "rifle guns" in the area as well.  If it's a rifle you're interested in, Dennis makes a good suggestion.  I'm not familiar with the chart you're speaking of so sorry, can't haelp you there.

                 Ed

[Dphariss]

I am new to this forum and long rifle building.  I want to build a long rifle that has some heritage/family significance.  I can trace my family back to 1768, a farm called greenfield at Clinchburg near Saltville Washington County Virginia. 

I would like to build a rifle that would have been appropriate for that time and location.  I have the recommended books from this website( Ehrig, Buchele, Shumway, Alexander, Kindig) somewhere I saw a chart that showed long rifles by county but I can't find it. 

If anybody could point me in the right direction, perhaps you know of the chart or may have info on how I can identify an appropriate long rifle.
Thanks,
Owen

Any early Virginia rifle would be OK.

School's for longrifles are just guides and perhaps even guesses in some cases. An unsigned rifle of one school or another might have been built in some place where it is now thought to "wrong" by some apprentice or journyman or master who shifted location and made the rifle he was used to making.

I would look at Gusler's video on carving a Kentucky Rifle, it concerns VA rifles. Rifles may be a little late and plenty fancy. Smoothbores were common but rifles were plently popular on the frontier especially from PA on south, more so than farther east so there is an excellent chance your forebears had some rifles even in 1760. The natives had them 15-20 years earlier in PA.
RCA124 is OK I guess but the ergonomics leave a lot to be desired from a shooters standpoint. Looks like a cheek biter to me.
The Haymaker rifle, 131, would be a guide as well and I like it better. I could easily date to the late 1760s. Years ago people were dating  rifles 20-30 years too early and now we are dating them 10-20 years too late but that's just my opinion. The Haymaker has a pretty firm date for being in actual use in 1774 IIRC.
Since Haymaker was making rifles in 1753 we can assume (or not I suppose) they were likely at least similar to 131 *if* it was really made by that maker.

Better close off before I get in any more trouble.

Dan

[mr. no gold]

The Kentucky Rifle Association won an NRA silver medal for an iron mounted rifle at the 2009 Phoenix annual meeting. The rifle was all iron including the two piece patchbox and quite well made. Rather than having Jaeger architecture, it was long barreled and quite slender. Bore was large at .60 caliber, perhaps, and had deep grooves.
The barrel was signed 'Thomas Tileston' and dated 1773, some years prior to the Revolution. 
If this interests you, I will see if photos are available from the owner and how he feels about sharing details of the gun. It would pretty well fit your parameters for an early build. Tileston apparently made arms for the Revolution and must have been around for awhile prior to that.
Dick

[California Kid]

I'd certainly like to see pics. Do you know where Tileston is from. Va. perhaps?

[Tommy Bruce]

The Kentucky Rifle Association won an NRA silver medal for an iron mounted rifle at the 2009 Phoenix annual meeting. The rifle was all iron including the two piece patchbox and quite well made. Rather than having Jaeger architecture, it was long barreled and quite slender. Bore was large at .60 caliber, perhaps, and had deep grooves.
The barrel was signed 'Thomas Tileston' and dated 1773, some years prior to the Revolution. 
If this interests you, I will see if photos are available from the owner and how he feels about sharing details of the gun. It would pretty well fit your parameters for an early build. Tileston apparently made arms for the Revolution and must have been around for awhile prior to that.
Dick

I'd be interested in seeing those too.  Along with any other information you could provide on this rifle.

[mr. no gold]

Sorry, I neglected to include the information that the rifle is thought to have been made in  in the southern part of Virgina.
Dick

[Tommy Bruce]

Dick, that makes little difference to me.  Just to be able to see an Iron mounted rifle southern rifle from that time period would be excellent.

[mr. no gold]

Hey Tom, I expect to see the owner of the piece at the Las Vegas Winter Show and I will be sure to ask him about it. I'll get back to you then.
Dick

[TPH]

owenpf, welcome to the forum. It might help to look for a gun that would be "native" to your family's location before coming to Washington County. It is doubtful that they would have come to the area without a firearm since the area was wild and would have been a dangerous place in 1768. They likely would not have had a locally produced gun until years later. And don't rule out a smooth bored gun.

[owenpf]

Thank you for the warm welcome and all the suggestions.  I have looked over RCA #121 and #134.  I like the looks of the Haymaker, but #123 really caught my eye. 

T.P. Hern made a really good point that my ancestor would have come to Washington County already armed and would have brought a rifle from where ever he came from.  The speculation is that my ancestor came from Manheim Township, York County, Pennsylvania so that opens up a whole new set of choices.  Looks like maybe RCA #93 might be a good choice?

This really gives me ideas to think about, I am going to pick one and go with it.  Probably get a Chambers kit to start.  Them I am sure I will have a gazillion more questions when I get started. 
Thanks for the help.
Owen

[Pete G.]

A Chambers kit would be a most excellent place to start. They are quality kits and head off a lot of the mistakes that a less experienced builder might unknowingly commit. You will be proud of your first gun, no matter how it turns out, but if it is a good build you will remain proud of it, instead of finding the errors later on when you know more. Incidentally, there is no such thing as building one rifle; usually it is just your FIRST build.

[Nate McKenzie]

Chambers makes an early York Co. kit that for me is one of the best fitting rifles I ever made.