Author Topic: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun  (Read 1621 times)

Offline Carden1

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Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« on: August 09, 2024, 10:56:33 PM »
Looking for any info about Mosias Maupin, an early 1800s gun maker in Eastern Missouri. My wife is a direct descendant of him and have an opportunity to purchase a rifle he made.  Thanks.

Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2024, 11:33:01 PM »
Didn’t Dr. Whisker publish a book on Missouri gun makers? Search under James Whisker
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

Offline Adrie luke

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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2024, 01:57:54 AM »
There’s a Harris Maupin in Missouri who makes horns and other accoutrements. Might be worth looking him up. If interested I have a guy I can ask. Google something or other.  :D

Also Larry Callahan who makes bag molds and he are tight so if you find one you can find the other.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Carden1

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2024, 02:17:54 AM »
Thanks, I know no one can say without seeing the rifle but what would be a good price range for a flintlock from around 1800-1825.

Offline JTR

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2024, 02:53:24 AM »
Thanks, I know no one can say without seeing the rifle but what would be a good price range for a flintlock from around 1800-1825.

A few questions,,,, is it signed on the barrel? flint or percussion? Does it have a patchbox? Is it carved, or not? Still full length, or cut back? Any old finish, or a new finish? Fancy wood, or plain? Rifled barrel, or smooth? Brass, or iron mounted? There's a few for starters.
John
 
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Offline Carden1

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2024, 03:28:34 AM »
Unfortunately I just found out it is going to be at an auction and I won't be able to see it till then which is a few weeks from now. I understand all the criteria that goes into gun values as I own modern firearms. Just know absolutely nothing about flintlock rifles. I'm sure it is more of a utilitarian rifle and from what I have gathered the makers mark is on the side plate. I'm assuming flint as it was probably made prior to 1804.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2024, 03:36:25 AM »
No pictures in auction catalogue? Also, most guns that were flint got converted to percussion during their lifetime. If it’s made before 1804 that’s interesting.

Price range? $150-$600 if a plain gun, signed by a non-famous maker. $150 if it’s a mess. $600 if fine and interesting in some ways. If it turned out to have roots from the Appalachian South, and forged mounts that are interesting, it could get bidded up.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Carden1

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2024, 03:55:02 AM »
No pics in sale bill. I'm hoping to work out something to be able to view the gun prior to sale day and take pics. Maupin came to Missouri with Daniel Boone, they lived within 15-20 miles of each other. Maupin also was executor of John Colter estate and lived a few miles from him. Thanks for the info on price. The interest mainly comes from the rifle being made by my wifes GGGGgrandfather.

Offline jdm

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2024, 05:16:50 AM »
Mosias Maupin ,(1758-1816 )Greenbrier Co. Va. Madison co. Ky .1800 . St Louis Mo. 1804. Franklin Co. Mo.1806-1816 . Reported to have been a sometime hunting partner of Daniel Boone.  He had three sons Amos ,Daniel and John.  This information is from  Vic Paul's book.  " Misouri Gunsmiths to 1900 ". The best book on Missouri gunsmiths  which others have copied from.  Jim
JIM

Offline Carden1

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2024, 05:35:55 AM »
I was going off memory on Mosias death date and got that wrong. ( the wife corrected me after I posted). Will have to look for that book. According to wifes family history book one or more of the sons were gunsmiths also. Thanks for the info.

Offline jdm

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2024, 05:46:28 AM »
Vic ststes in his book  there were several of the Maupin family who were gunsmiths and a number operated as blacksmiths and wagonmakers.  There are rifles marked  "M M " on the top flat of the barrell  that have been attributed to  Mosias .  Jim
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Offline Carden1

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2024, 06:14:11 AM »
Thank you for the info. We live near the area where Mosias lived when he died and have been looking for 20+ yrs for one of his rifles. Have never known anyone to have one either.

Offline JTR

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2024, 06:04:39 PM »
If you and your wife really want it, I'd suggest you go to the auction with a $2500/3000 budget in mind and go for it.

Sometimes family history outweighs the value of the gun. And sometimes other family members are bidding against you as well. Streeetch the budget,,, and hope no one else wants it!
John
John Robbins

Offline Carden1

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2024, 04:07:14 AM »
The auction guy said there are 2 rifles. 1 half stock and 1 full stock. Both have been converted to percussion. Does that have a bearing on the $150-$600 value? He said both were average guns in his opinion.

Offline Carden1

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2024, 04:08:46 AM »
He also said the makers mark is on the top of the barrel.

Offline JTR

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2024, 04:30:33 AM »
The full stock will be worth more.
As for the half stock. If it was originally a flinter, it's likely that it started life as a full stock, and was cut down when percussioned.

If you really want the gun, and can afford it, don't let it slip through your fingers for want of a couple hundred bucks!

Good luck, John
John Robbins

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2024, 06:19:34 AM »
I checked "Kentucky Gunmakers 1775-1900, Vol.2 Biographies" on Mosias Maupin, and then Vic Paul's book on Missouri gunsmiths. He arrived in MO several years later than Boone, arriving in 1803 or 1804, and is first documented in MO at St. Louis in 1804. It was the 1803 Louisiana Purchase of that area by our government that enticed him to make the move from Kentucky.

Vic Paul states there are several known guns marked "M M" stamped or engraved in block letters on the barrel, but the actual maker is unknown. Since most of them are later percussion rifles, made well after Mosias' death, the prevailing thought among Missouri collectors is that they were probably made by his son Daniel, also a gunsmith, who may have kept the M M marking of his father to help sell the later rifles Daniel made. There was no reference, or statement, in Vic's book about any Mosias Maupin rifle actually being known, or even of one of the "M M" marked rifles actually being documented to a Maupin family gunsmith. Rather, it is the most logical and compelling assumption by knowledgeable Missouri collectors.

From my research on the KY end of Mosias' career, and the early date an actual Mosias rifle would have to be, I'd think the barrel signature would probably be in engraved "M M" in script and the gun would have the earlier lines of a lighter, more graceful full-stocked rifle with good curly maple stock. But even if the gun were made by a son, it's still a Maupin rifle and worth acquiring due to your family's connection to Maupin. And if you really get lucky and it's an early, full-stocked rifle in good curly maple with 43" to 44" barrel, probably well-made but without patchbox or inlay work, I'd think 2,000 to 2,500 might be a reasonable price to pay.

Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: August 15, 2024, 06:28:44 AM by Tanselman »

Offline Curt J

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2024, 06:07:01 AM »
For what it is worth, I will add this:
About 55 years ago, when I was young and dumb, I was intoduced to an old doctor in Washington, Illinois, named Dr. Lee E. Monroe. He was at that time 91 years old and still practicing medicine. He was an old time collector who was slowly selling off his collection. He showed me two rifles that he would sell me for $100 each. One was a C. Siebert, Columbus, Ohio, target rifle with original peep sight and spirit-level front sight. The other was a walnut fullstock "chunk-gun" made by one of the Missouri Maupins. Both rifles were in fine condition with mint bores. If they had not been, Dr. Monroe would not have owned them. I bought the Siebert rifle, intending to go back and buy the Maupin rifle, but I never did. The Maupin chunk gun had a hand forged barrel which still had hammer marks and blue/black slag on the surface....and it was round, not octagon. The barrel was quite heavy and about 44 inches long. The rifle weighed around twenty pounds. The stock was straight grained walnut, well made but plain. I do remember that it was made without a lockbolt and had a screw through the face of the lock plate, probably threaded into a tapped hole in the breechplug extension. The trigger guard and buttplate were dark, but I'm not sure whether they were of iron or tarnished brass. Dr. Monroe had originally come from Missouri, and had owned this rifle for many years. He knew quite a bit about the Maupin who made this rifle, but that information no doubt died with him about fifty years ago.

Offline Carden1

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2024, 05:16:12 AM »
Interesting story.
Are there any Missouri collectors or clubs that we could contact once we get the rifles to look them over and tell us more about them?

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2024, 06:27:12 AM »
The Gemmer muzzle loading club in St.Louis area has collectors with a lot of knowledge.
Andover, Vermont

Offline jdm

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2024, 04:12:57 PM »
check your P M  for missouri collector near you.    I'm in K.C. and may also be of some help.  Jim
« Last Edit: August 17, 2024, 04:20:04 PM by jdm »
JIM

Offline bpd303

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Re: Need info on early 1800s Missouri gun
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2024, 04:19:21 AM »
. The interest mainly comes from the rifle being made by my wifes GGGGgrandfather.
That would about double/triple the amount I would be willing to bid.
Randy aka bpd303        Arkansas Ozarks

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