.54cal Load for a mighty Elk?

[frontier gander]

Drew a Cow elk tag for a  late november hunt and want to get a few of my rifles sighted in and ready.

So far i have been getting consistent 2" groups @ 100 yards with my CVA .54 Mountain Rifle with 80gr Pyrodex RS, .015 double patch "One as a buffer" and a home cast .530 ball.

Good for elk out to 100 yards and a heart shot?

Being November, there should be plenty of snow on the ground to aid in tracking it after the shot.

[northmn]

I have not seen one of those rifles in a long time.  They were good ones.  Is the light spot around the wrist from use?  I cannot speak about the load for elk, although it sounds a little light, as elk are kind of scarce around here.  Your 2 inch groups with Pyrodex RX is very impressive as I never could get the stuff to come close to that with my 50 percussion.  Mostly due to the fact that it liked to hangfire on too high a percentage of shots.  I am not speaking as a "purist"  I ahve always hated the performance of the stuff.  For hunting I would not use it as its reliability is not as good as black powder.  I suspect others will mention this.  You can mail order black powder from Graf's.  My last 5 pound order cost about $85.00.

DP

[Mike R]

Nice looking old CVA, too bad they quit making them.   I would think that load would be Ok for 75 yds or less--the vel/energy falls off at 100 & beyond with 80 grs BP [I don't shoot the fake stuff, so cannot comment on it].  Elk are big tough animals.  Most folks here would probably goose up that load--my viewpoint is that I want to find the most accurate load so I can be more sure of proper shot placement, but still have enough energy on target to penetrate into the vitals.  If your group opens up with higher loads, then stick with 80 gr and get close as possible....

[BrownBear]

I agree on the rifle.  I particularly like what looks like a lightened area of wear at the wrist.  I just love to see well used rifles- dents, dings and warts included.  It just seems more honest than a flawless museum piece.

Speaking from personal experience, that's a good elk load but probably not a 100 yard load.  But recognize that in my mind there's no such thing as a 100 yard elk load with a 54 cal PRB.  A 58 cal comes closer, but I just don't like longer shots at large animals.  Personal prejudice.  The biggest problem in my mind is accurate range estimation, and the difference between an 90 yard elk and a 120 yard elk is hard to see, especially in low light.  Yet that much sighting error can be a big deal when shooting at a target as small as a heart.

As for power, yeah.  I'd hunt with your load out to between 50 and 75 yards.  A relative's identical rifle and similar load has proven itself with two one-shot kills on elk at that range.  With my own GPR 54 cal I shoot either 90 grains of Geox 3f or Pyrodex P.   Reliable killer as far as I'm willing to shoot (i.e., 75 yards).

As for hunting differences between Pyro P and Goex,  I don't find any for the first few shots from a clean gun.  Pyrodex is only a problem with repeated shots, manifested as slower ignition and eventually slight hangfires after half a dozen shots or so.  In my experience it happens quicker with drum bolsters than with patent breeches, but it's honestly a factor with both.  In general I've had better luck using Pyrodex P than RS with drum bolsters.

The eventual ignition problems are certainly an issue with a range gun, but not with a hunting gun.  The distinction is important for a traveling hunter due to the inability to fly with either powder and the requirement to locate sources at your destination.  You can generally find Pyrodex with little effort, but you have to do your homework and make arrangements beforehand to acquire black.  Not a religious issue with me. 

[Harnic]

My old 54 cal flint half-stock liked 130 gr 3f behind a .530 patched rb.  I never tried Pyrodex in it as Hodgdon had just introduced it & I was leary of that new fangled fake black powder (that attitude has not changed... )  Not sure of the velocity, but the effect was obvious on both ends.  It worked great on moose & deer although it was definitely over-kill on deer.

[Daryl]

F. Gander - I believe your load is too light for good work on Elk at 100 yards, so I mostly concurr with the others on this.  I am amazed at your 2" accuracy.  How does it do when you are holding it, ie: offhand, sitting, etc? With Pyrodex, I'd up that charge to about 110gr. and see how it does.
: If your actual charge is 80gr. it's about equivalent to 100gr. of 2F.  If it's a stricken measure in a PB measure, then you are fairly short and my 110gr. minimum fits, in my opinion, of a descent 'large' big game load.  Moose, elk and griz make the 'large' big game criteria.

[roundball]

Good for elk out to 100 yards and a heart shot?

Personal preference: I like big game loads for big game.

TC's load data chart for my .54cal goes up to 120grns FFg and I always use max/near-max powder charges for big game hunting.

In my case that's only eastern whitetails and .530"/230grns balls pushed right along are devastating on them at the normal short woods distances I take shots at, but that's OK to me because I'll also know I'll have "the right stuff" if one ever steps out on me 100+ yards away .

And I'd definitely use the max powder charge for Elk hunting, with an Oxyoke prelubed wad over the powder to protect the patch.

Big game loads for big game hunting.

[Dphariss]

It will work fine too 100 yards probably farther.
Shoot for the lungs and avoid the shoulder blades and large leg bones. If you get both lungs its a done deal. Getting only one can cause a long chase with ANYTHING even a .338.
Shot to the base of the throat will work too if the animal is facing the shooter but the target is a lot smaller.

Dan

[longcruise]

A couple elk have been shot by my fellow hunters with .54 and 80 grains of goex ff.  They were all under 50 yards so I can't comment on the 100 yard thing.  I prefer heavier charges for elk and have shot as much as 120 grains of ff.  Last one was with 110 if memory serves and at 45 or so yards it was devastating.

If your gun will shoot well with 100 grains I'd say go there.  Like Dan, I think the 80 will do the job at 100 too, but no elk ever argued that it was too dead!

FWIW, all my chrongraphing with rb and conicals with goex ff and pyrodex rs have shown that when measured by volume they are within a few fps in velocity.

[frontier gander]

i'll try some pyrodex p as it will increase velocity a bit. I'll experiment with a 90-100gr pyrodex RS and see how it does.

With 70gr RS and a double patch, i can get 2 shots to touch with the third being out of the group (my fault- i was reloading in a down pour and did not cover the muzzle good enough and powder got wet and hang fired"  I've gone 17 shots without a hangfire so thats pretty good.



The lighter areas on the stock are just worn down finish.

As for my off hand shooting,  a couple deer at 146 and 148 yards dropped in their tracks with a different style open sight rifle.  Last year i nailed a nice mule deer doe @ 80 yards, standing and off hand.

With a cva bobcat and my shooting sticks i can hold 2" group @ 150 yards, but that rifle has fiber optic sights.

[Daryl]

You've done well Gander. I am glad you aren't using a bullet. Round balls just seem to kill more quickly, in sipite of what a particular gun writer says.
: I would over around a 100grs. tricken measure of RS if that's the powder of choice. I know that load will kill moose with broadside double lung hits, but like Roundball, I still prefer more powder!  The more powder you use, the flatter the trajectory.
; Roundball makes a good point about protecting the powder charge from the lubed patch. When I hunted with a 14 bore rifle, I invariably put a dry patch down between the powder and patched round ball.  Having a rifle loaded for 3 months, then touching it off without hesitation and pin-point accuracy shows that method works.  One of the 'dry-lubed-type wads like RB suggests on top of the powder should also do OK. Some rifles I've tried this in, redcued accuracy somewhat, but were small calibre. This might have been the only reason for loosing accuracy with the wad. The .69 (14 bore) didn't care what was put down between powder and ball. Perhaps the larger the bore, the less effected they are. I know my .45 didn't like it. I tried lubed wads, OxYoke as well as a dry .100 card and the groups opened to 1 1/2" at 50 yards.  The way I've been shooting lately, 1 1/2" doesn't sound too bad.

[frontier gander]

I try to shy away from the Wads as they are $10 for 100 and will then cause me to carry even more stuff in my possibles bag and then slow me down even more having to fumble around for the wad.  I like to keep it simple.

I have a couple other rifles that i'll be using on my elk hunt, i plan on switching out every other day.

Last year i had 3 rifles with me 

[roundball]

They are a bit expensive, but remember, you're only using them for a couple shots or so during hunting season...they're not needed for year round weekend plinking...so a single bag will last for years...keep them in a sealed ziploc bag, etc.

[northmn]

I must of gotten about the worst can of RS Hodgen made as it would not perform.  I do admit there was a world of difference between it and the Select which I found to work better.  Others claim better results than I have had.  Liked 777 better than Pyrodex but will admit that Pyrodex is more like BP.  Like BP the best. 
As to the accuracy thing, they claim that if you keep all shots within a 8" plate you are good for deer (they mean off hand or hunting situations).  What would be good for Elk, a 12" plate?

DP

[tg]

I liked to be able to keep a 5" group for either and keep whatever range I could do that as my outside limit, as long as it was realistic energy wise, probably a little conservative but it helps allow for being off on distance judgement as well as increasing the odds against a fupaw of sorts or ol' Murphy. I judged this with full sized animal targets painted on cardboard from appliances with no "target' on the animal

[BobT]

In my .54 plains rifle I shoot 90 grains 3f under a .535 ball with .020 pillow ticking patch lubed with bore butter. This loads fairly easily in my barrel (36" GM) and gives excellent accuracy out to 100 yards. I have not shot an elk with it but would not hesitate to if I got a good broadside shot out at 100 yards or a bit farther. I'm sure good placement would result in a very dead elk.

Bob 

[BrownBear]

"I'm sure good placement would result in a very dead elk."

That's a mouthful. 

Guns can be amazingly accurate at long range, but it's the responsibility of the guiding hands to point them in the right place.  That varies from hunter to hunter, situation to situation, and shot to shot. 

I'm not being preachy here.  Just pointing out that with good shot placement a surprising range of loads and calibers will kill elk cleanly.  They're not all that hard to kill in my long experience.  Conditions can make them hard to hit well, however. 

My own range limits for shooting big game are based on a frank assessment of my own limitations and in no way reflect the accuracy potential of my rifles.

[frontier gander]

Thanks to all of those who said to try 100gr's powder. I went out back with 4 powder tubes and my first shot @ 100 yards was 8" high, adjusted, reloaded and second shot was  4" high of bulls eye, adjusted and shot 3 was 1" high POA and my next shot was to see how it would group and after measuring shots 3 and 4, it measured 1 1/2" group @ 100 yards.

Seems to like 100gr Pyrodex RS!  Rain also slacked off enough for me to get out there and do my shooting. Bad part, the heavy rain tore up my elk target 

Have to mold some more balls for the .54 and then i will double check the group and call it good.

[BrownBear]

Sounds like a great setup for your hunt.  Keep us posted on results!

Just idle curiosity because I have my 54 cal GPR sighted in at 75 yards, with only a few confirmation shots at 100 (3" low)-  Where is yours hitting at 50 yards and 75 yards?

[frontier gander]

I'll have to check that later on. I took about 6 shots at 25 yards and then went back to 100 yards and was on target the first time out.  My first time at 100 yards i was 8" low and that was sighted 1" high at 25yrds.

[BuffaloGun]

Both my .54s do nicely with 120gr of 3fg and PRB.
I took my elk with it a few years back.
I've got a pair of those old CVAs in .45 & .50 that I had been using to teach muzzle loading to my Boy Scouts. I'f I ever see one of the old double barrel lug models in a shop or a show I'll usualy try to grab it.