When is a Mountain rifle Not a Mountain Rifle?

[Tanselman]

Most people enjoy southern mountain rifles, including myself. But I am beginning to believe not all the rifles we tag as mountain rifles are really mountain rifles. Here is a case in point. I collect firearms from the state of Kentucky, which has a WIDE range of longrifles, from the simplest mountain rifles in southeastern Kentucky to sophisticated Bluegrass rifles. But after studying them for 40 years, I am beginning to "reclassify" a few mountain rifles. Below is a beat-to-heck example of the type of rifle I am referring to. If you knew nothing else about it, other than it was a walnut stocked, iron mounted, very plain "poor boy" rifle, some of you might call it a mountain rifle.

I think at times finer makers in larger markets made simple, iron mounted guns when asked... most did not want to turn away business... although they were reluctant to sign low budget guns. The rifle illustrated below is what I would call a "secondary Lexington rifle." Lexington made fine rifles with the iconic cast brass "Lexington" patchbox and traditional forestock and butt molding lines terminated with a wavy line, usually with 3 humps in it. The rifle below has details that relate it to the Bryan shop outside of Lexington... arguable Lexington's best shop with Daniel Bryan, Lewis Bryan and William Bryan all making fine Lexington guns. Is this "mountain rifle" really a low budget Lexington rifle, made for someone requesting an iron mounted, walnut stocked, lower priced gun?

Key details to consider are:
1. shorter forestock grip area, very similar to known Bryan rifles,
2. slim forestock with straight barrel like Bryan rifles... no swamping as often seen in other areas of Kentucky,
3. double-line lower butt molding terminated below/behind the rear trigger with three small arc cuts,
4. triggers, both front and rear, are almost exact duplicates of Lexington style triggers used by the Bryans,
5. small cheekpiece with flute across base, slightly shorter than most Bryan rifles, but very similar lower edge treatment,
6. similar stock architecture and side facings.

This rifle has been abused in modern times by an amateur "restorer" who, I believe, removed almost an inch at the muzzle end to "smooth things up," cleaned the barrel surface excessively especially near the breech, replaced rusty iron bolts and screws with "better" modern steel ones, and recolored the stock. But beneath the modern "clean-up" I think I see a quality Lexington, Kentucky, full-stock rifle, graceful and very well stocked, but simplified with a walnut stock and iron furniture for a customer who demanded a lower cost rifle, perhaps thinking it would hold up better in rough conditions. I also believe this was the style guard with rectangular bow, low straight grip rail, strong bend for rear spur, that was used by most central KY gunmakers when they made a simpler, iron mounted rifle. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Barrel is 47 inches long and straight, rusty bore about .34 caliber.

Shelby Gallien

[Bob Roller]

Very interesting old  rifle and we appreciate the pictures.Can you show the inside of the lock?Some of these go beyond simple.
Bob Roller

[tooguns]

Thank you for sharing! May I ask what are the groves cut across the front of the comb? Thanks again!

[Jacob_S_P]

Remington made their iconic model 700 BDL rifles. While also making less iconic 'budget friendly' rifles like the 788, and even a 700 ADL.
Rifle makers back then did the same - I have a breathtaking brass rifle made and signed by my 4th GGF, with one slightly better known example gracing many books and even a book cover. I also have a very 'low grade' iron rifle bearing the exact same signature and characteristics of several other documented examples.
Both are 'Mountain Rifles' made in the same mountain based shop, both are strikingly different and served two different tax brackets.

[Tanselman]

Tooguns,

The small grooves or notches cut on the nose of the comb are modern additions, I assume done by the "restorer" to make the gun more interesting... kind of like the notches added to some of the grips of old Colt peacemakers.

Shelby Gallien

[JTR]

I have a breathtaking brass rifle made and signed by my 4th GGF, with one slightly better known example gracing many books and even a book cover.

Hmmm, so who is the 4th GGF?
We have a Beck relative here, so another well known maker would be interesting!

Curiously, John

[Jacob_S_P]

Jacob Shaffer is the one I mentioned. I depend from another better known name as well, which made a vast number of rifles, but there were also many more of them.

[B.Barker]

Thanks for posting Shelby. I'm sure some shops made lower grade rifles for folks just needing a tool rather than a show piece.

[Spalding]

Shelby, I keep studying the photos of this rifle and really like the simplicity of it.
You wouldn’t by chance happen to have a photo of the trigger guard front extension and/or the barrel tang?

Bob

[Tanselman]

Here are images of the barrel tang and guard. The rear spur on the guard is a simple "bend over" of the iron strip that does not touch the stock wood on the rear side... just a tightly bent loop... so the guard has no rear extension behind the rear spur.

Shelby Gallien

[Spalding]

Thank you, Shelby.

BOB

[Collector]

The lock bolt heads are, I think, unusually large.  Repurposed military (?) or a preconception on my part?

[mbriggs]

Shelby,

The rifle makers in the Davidson Longrifle School in North Carolina used the exact same two screw barrel tang.

Michael

[Bob Roller]

A "mountain"rifle is not a "mountain"rifle if it's taken to flat country then it becomes a "Plains rifle" .

Bob Roller

[Tanselman]

Collector,

The large headed lock bolts are modern replacements, as are all the screws and bolts on the rifle.

Shelby Gallien

[bama]

Speaking from the standpoint of being a full time gunsmith, I build to my customers specifications. If I build a less ornate rifle the quality will remain the same, it will just be less ornate. Without having the rifle in hand it’s hard to tell if the quality of workmanship is equal to the Lexington rifles.

When I do restoration work I do my best to study the methods of construction of the original builder and I try to match his quality of work.

I say that only to say this. Builders and collectors have different ways of looking at a rifle. Most collectors, not all, but most only look at the outside details and stock architecture. Builders tend to look beneath the surface and study the original builders methods of construction.

Shelby you have had the opportunity to look at more Kentucky built rifles than many of us ever will have. Your input and knowledge has been very instrumental in identifying many details of what to look for in a Kentucky built rifle from the outside. I think that if you used that same eye for detail turned toward the technics of how the rifles are constructed you will find that how it was built will also help point to where it was built.

I recently had a discussion with Kenneth Ore about a signed David Kennedy rifle. Although the barrel has a very nice David Kennedy signature he felt the rifle was built by his son Hiram. The rifle has a Kentucky hardware store lock that is dated 1836. David Kennedy was In Alabama and I believe died that year. Kenneth made the statement that although the barrel was signed David Kennedy the stock architecture and methods of construction looked more like Hirams work. Can we say that for sure, no. What that conversation taught me was, to look past what we see on the surface of the rifle.

Thanks for posting this rifle, it’s another piece of history for us to glean knowledge from. I hope this helps you on your search.

Jim

[Tanselman]

Bama,

I have heard several builders voice the same comments. My reservation with that line of thought, while valid, is that of all the builder/collectors out there, the people who could use this technique most effectively, I have yet to see one use his construction skills to identify an unsigned rifle any more accurately than using the many surface details to do the same identification.

When looking at surface details, we see much of the artistic feeling of a gunmaker, including his sense of surface contours, balance and proportion, which I believe give us the most reliable evidence on who made an unsigned gun. I believe gunmakers knew that appearance was the primary driving force to recognition as a superior builder. Apprentices could do the "hidden work" at times, like barrel channels and lock mortises, but I believe when it came to the finial appearance of a rifle, it was controlled by the gunsmith himself. I have disassembled many Bardstown rifles, for an example, and found variations in lock inletting while barrel inletting is generally consistent... suggesting to me it gets a little "iffy" at times who is really doing the "hidden" work behind the lock plate on a given rifle, despite its signature.

Stock architecture, on the other hand, offers many details I believe show us the maker's hand. It is not simply the profile, but all the nuances worked into the stock shape, such as shaping of wood and small details at rear pipe, cheekpiece, side-facings, and other sculpted areas. I am fascinated by placement of ramrod pipes, and their relations to barrel wedges, for example, and each piece of hardware, such as tangs, triggers, rear pipes, filing of pipes, etc., tells us something about the builder's thoughts.

I will leave the internal inspections of American longrifles to the builders/collectors, because while it can add another dimension to the study, my personal belief is that internal "hidden" details are not always done by the gunsmith when apprentices are in the shop, and I believe the external appearance of a rifle, with its many subtle details of contours, dimensions, ratios, etc., still tells us a lot more about who made the gun and how he wanted it presented to the potential buyer. 

Shelby Gallien

[Spalding]

Interesting thoughts, Shelby, that make a lot of sense. Let the apprentices take care of the more mundane, tedious work while the proprietor “signs his signature” with the artistic architectural aspect of the rifle.
This rifle really has piqued my interest and would be one I’d could foresee wanting to build  a loose copy of. I could think of many questions I’d like to ask about minor details, but I hate to be a pest.

Bob

[bama]

All good points Shelby. You may be correct about a lot of the tedious work being done by the apprentices but remember that the apprentice will do as the master instructs. I missed an a nicely carved unsigned G Shroyer because I didn’t act quick enough. I was a new collector, the rifle didn’t have a Patch Box but I had studied Shroyer’s work closely and I was positive it was his work. The rifle was in the black and not messed with, I just wasn’t $5000 sure. The next time I saw the rifle it was several thousand more because somebody saw the same things I saw. I will not make that mistake again.

Always a pleasure to see new pieces, again thanks for sharing.

[oldtravler61]

  Do to my learning curve on these rifles. When I look at a gun like this I always wonder . If someone acquired a barrel an lock like we do today. Then made his own rendition of a certain rifle. Without being an apprentice and working with a Master builder ?  I'll go hide now under my rock..

[Tanselman]

Jim,

I have seen one significant "forensic" study of tool cuts/marks/dimensions, etc. Years ago, Ft. Wayne, IN, was home of Lincoln Life Insurance, and they had a superb Abraham Lincoln collection. Their Lincoln Museum was run by Dr. R. Gerald McMurtry, a renowned Lincoln historian. He grew up in KY and during the depression, he and his dad went out on weekends and knocked on farmers' doors to see if they had "old guns" to sell.

He had a moderate collection of KY muzzle loaders when I met him, but his entire house was a virtual museum of Lincoln artifacts. He had dazzling displays of Lincoln items such as pieces of the blue/white coverlet Lincoln died on across from Ford Theater, with original blood splatters on some pieces... he had stuff no one else would ever see, and he had several pieces of Thomas Lincoln's [Abe's father and cabinetmaker] original hand-made Kentucky furniture.

Thomas Lincoln signed very few pieces of furniture, despite his work being well-made. Dr. McMurtry had a pair of corner cabinets, sideboard, cupboard, and a hired hand's folding/collapsable bed. One piece had a 100% provenance back to Thomas Lincoln, a corner cabinet sold by Thomas to a neighbor. A forensic lab did an analysis of the joints, all cuts, tool marks, chisel sizes, methods of making cuts, etc. and was able to identify several details specific to Thomas Lincoln's hand. Based on that study, several other unsigned pieces of Thomas Lincoln's furniture have been identified over the years, with attributions solid enough to be accepted by major museums.

Dr. McMurtry had a twin to the study piece in his home, which he "knew" was made by Thomas Lincoln, but no museum would take it on his word. It was later evaluated by someone from the forensic study and pronounced an original Thomas Lincoln cabinet. Dr. McMurtry told me he had a provenance on his piece going back to the first known owner who found it in a creek near Hodgenville, KY, soon after the Lincoln family crossed the creek on their way to Indiana. It had fallen off the wagon, got damaged, and Thomas Lincoln left it there. But no one documented it dropping off the wagon, so despite the next owner's story about it, it had a flawed provenance... until it was checked and verified in the 1980s.

Dr. McMurtry sold me several of his KY rifles. Most were ordinary, but I still have his signed "M. Dickson" rifle with "Louisville" patchbox attached by many small nails, one of Dickson's earliest rifles and illustrated in "Kentucky Gunmakers."

Shelby Gallien
 

[JTR]

Oldtravler61,
I have one that pretty well matches your description of a farmer made rifle.
No finesse on this one. Just a decently made stock, a lock and a 46" swamped barrel. The trigger guard is just a bent piece of iron held on with a couple nails. The trigger itself is made simply, but it's one touch of elegance is a tiny curl on the trigger tip.
At this point the fore stock is busted off and the tang is broken in half. And the totally black finish on the stock is flaking. But it does have a cheek piece, so the maker knew what he wanted.
No name on the barrel, and I doubt anyone will recognize the maker.
I saw it many years ago, and bought it basically for the barrel and lock, but have never had the heart to scavenge it for parts. I think I'm just going to weld up the broken tang, and wrap some wire around the forearm end and call it good. I've already taken care of the broken tumbler/cock screw, so it's back to original flint semi operational condition. 
 

[Spalding]

Shelby, just a couple more questions and I’ll leave you alone,
It appears there is no entry pipe at the forearm, how did the builder shape the wood at the ramrod entry hole, and is the very rounded heel at the butt of the stock a damage repair or does it look like the stock was originally shaped as such?
Thank you,
Bob

[oldtravler61]

  JTR  thank you for showing your rifle. I appreciate it very much. I've always thought that like today. If a person had basic skills back then an access to parts. It would be very conceivable.  I'm a big fan of Tennessee /
  Kentucky rifles but my real favorites are guns like you posted. A true working mans gun. Again thanks for showing..  Oldtravler

[Tanselman]

Bob,

Here are two views of the rear entry hole. Note the entrance is rounded, not squared off as seen in Tennessee rifles. The heel of the butt stock is badly worn/damaged and eaten away. When newer, the heel was shaped much like a standard butt plate heel, with the caveat that at times, in Kentucky, a "poor boy" heel was extended outward a little more than a standard metal butt plate, to compensate for wear on the unprotected heel. Stocking on this rifle is very well done with slim forestock, and well-shaped details in all areas. It was an "above average" stocking job for a" below average" cost gun.

Bob, if you would like any other dimensions or details, just contact me by e-mail through the "Messages" on this site, and I will be glad to provide the additional info you are interested in.

Shelby Gallien