English bar lock for hawken

[HighUintas]

Are there any original earlier Hawken rifles using an English bar/sporting rifle style lock? The only one I know of the the Roosevelt Hawken, which I would guess is a late one.

There's two that use a shotgun style lock I'm aware of, the Atchison and Peterson, but that lock is a bit different than the bar lock. I'm wondering if that type of lock was a little too late to have been used on any J&S period Hawken rifles

[Bob Roller]

Didn't the J&S era end with the death of Jacob Hawken?All the locks I made dedicated to the Hawken were ordinary locks that had plates that could be shaped for a bolster of about any shape.All of the target rifle locks I made were shotgun style with minor variations when needed.I have pattern plates  for shotgun styles and a Rigby plate that requires a different bolster contour to use it.I am not making locks now and no plans to restart.
Bob Roller

[HighUintas]

Didn't the J&S era end with the death of Jacob Hawken?All the locks I made dedicated to the Hawken were ordinary locks that had plates that could be shaped for a bolster of about any shape.All of the target rifle locks I made were shotgun style with minor variations when needed.I have pattern plates  for shotgun styles and a Rigby plate that requires a different bolster contour to use it.I am not making locks now and no plans to restart.
Bob Roller

Yes it did. I am wanting to build a Hawken rifle, but sort of want to do something unique and less common.

I had considered trying to find one of your J&S Hawken locks, but those are like hen's teeth and there's always vultures circling the classifieds looking for them.

Then I see one of your 4 screw bridle European style bar locks for sale that is unused and in like new shape. As far as I know, it's still available. I thought this might make an interesting and unique Hawken rifle if an original exists and the lock I'm guessing is about as fast and good as is available, considering the application you made it for and your level of craftsmanship.

[HighUintas]

What is the earliest decade that this type of lock would have been used? 1830s? 40s?

[Bob Roller]

The 3 and 4 screw locks were around in the 1860's.That is the style I copied and used an original 4 screw Rigby borrowed from Lynton McKenzie in 1996.I don't remember if it was a Brazier or a Stanton but it worked out really well.Locks if this quality are rare on American muzzle loaders and utility or "good enough"became common.I am still not convinced the Hawken brothers were inspired by a half stck English rifle of any kind.The last Hawken lock I made had a cast plate with the J&S Hawken name but with a copy of a 3 screw Stanton mechanism and most of the Schuetzen rifle locks that went to Germany had this as well.
Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

The Rigby lock plate might be compatible with the Hawken bolster breech. It is different from the Henry and the shotgun lock plates commonly seen.Finding such a lock may be hard.I have no plans to make any more locks of any kind.Lower back spasms and 89 years
of living has put me out of the shop.
I went to the shop and found my Rigby plate profile and it will work with the 1 and 1/8 inch Hawken breech.The Hawken rifles rose to
prominence in the early 1970's or maybe the very late 60's and became an icon.Just about any Eastern half stock rifle was better quality
than the Hawken and the copies that sprung up showed what can be done with that type and style of rifle by a craftsman with good tools and much better light.I admit I am prejudiced in favor of the Eastern target rifles like those from George Ferris and Nathan Whitmore.
There has been no Hawken found with a top of the line lock,Some were better that others but noting close to by those seen on English
rifles of that period.I have a Hawken hook breech and the Rigby plate is compatible. So is the hammer.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     Bob Roller

[HighUintas]

For anyone interested for future reference, There is at least one other than the TR rifle, but is an S Hawken probably from the 1850s. Louie Parker made a copy. This one has a different bolster and drip bar than typically seen on English sporting rifles, but very similar lock. That lock I spoke of has been scooped up already.

https://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2010/02/louie-parker-s-hawken.html?m=1

[Bob Roller]

That picture shows a shotgun style lock and the hammer is a Gemmer and I used them on all the locks I made for the Hawken Shop when it was in St.Louis in the 1970's I think.Your inletting skills are superb and THAT rifles lock area looks better than the one usually seen on these guns.
Bob Roller