Author Topic: Kentucky Kentuckies  (Read 6152 times)

jwh1947

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Kentucky Kentuckies
« on: January 21, 2010, 07:34:00 AM »
Somebody very recently inquired about information concerning Kentucky rifles made in Kentucky.  Today I read an excellent article by Mel Hankla in The KRA Bulletinabout that exact topic.  Non-members may wish to seek out a friend who gets The Bulletinand read it.  It is quite informative, easy to read, and complete with some excellent color photos.  Personal note---some quite handsome rifles came out of that region and I know very little about them, so I learned a lot from Mel's work.  Incidentally, the Bulletinhas had a recent facelift and all involved deserve recognition for a job well done. 

Off the wall...When I was at Frank and Lally's last party, someone from Bourbon County told me a bit of history that, if I recall correctly, went as follows:   As a result of the Whiskey Rebellion, I was told, many western Pennsylvanians relocated to what is now Kentucky simply because they didn't want to be dogged by taxmen.  Look at the relationship of those Kentucky Kentuckies to PA guns.  There are shades of PA as well as VA county characterics in some of those rifles that Mel points out.

Could any of you Kentucky historians add a paragraph here that would flesh out the Whiskey Rebellion/Kentucky relationship?  Thanks, Mel, not only scholarly, but fun to read.  Wayne

Offline G-Man

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2010, 08:05:50 PM »
That same topic (whiskey distillers fleeing to the western areas of the early US) to avoid the taxation issues was brought up on a History Channel  program  a few years back and I found it interesting.  They were probably adding to a whiskey making tradition that was already in full swing in Kentucky by that time.  Distilling corn whiskey in Kentucky goes back years before the Whiskey Rebellion, and seems to have been brought in by the Scotch-Irish settlers from VA and NC.   

Here is a pretty good writeup on early Kentucky Bourbon:

http://www.straightbourbon.com/articles/ccname.html


One of the things I find fascinating about the very early rifles made in Kentucky and Tennessee is the mixture of characteristics that echo the areas east of the mountains, combined into products that also reflect a uniqueness that seems to have grown out of some degree of isolation from those original influences once the gunsmiths were over on the frontier.  It is confusing, because some of the Pennsylvania influences might also have been first absorbed in Virginia and then transplanted to Kentucky when a gunsmith moved west, as well as brought in later directly from Pennsylvania.

Perhaps some of those later distillers fleeing the rugged hills of western PA had heard of the limestone springs and good climate and soil in the Bluegrass.   For settlers coming from Western PA, they would have likely come down the Ohio.  The trip was risky - by the early 1790s, the Ohio tribes were ambushing many boats on the river as it was easier prey than venturing deep into Kentucky, which was getting fairly heavily settled by then.  Limestone (Maysville) was the first major disembarkation point they would have passed, for people wishing to travel into the interior of Kentucky.    Old US68, the great old buffalo trace/ war trail led from Limestone to what is now the heart of the Bluegrass, i.e. passing though Paris and the heart of what is now Bourbon County.

Best regards

Guy


scooter

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2010, 09:10:07 PM »
Shelby Gallien's long-anticipated book on KY gunsmiths is "in press." I understand 2 vols with loads of information and many many photos. This is Shelby's magnum opus and it will be so thoroughly researched that "no one will have to walk that path again."  One or another can blow off a gunsmith or even a  school of gunsmithing but this will be a monumental work. Of course it won't be cheap either!

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2010, 05:55:08 AM »
Jim,  Thank you for the kind words, and hopefully the work will live up to your expectations. It is currently being put together by a graphic arts company in Indiana. I've seen the first several chapters to proof them and make formatting changes I feel are appropriate. The expected (not guaranteed) delivery date for books is June 1st.

The work will be in two volumes, about 350 pages each (depending on last minute additions, deletions, and edits), covering Kentucky's gunmaking traditions from the first gunmakers to step on her soil, to the last ones to close up shop. The state's identifiable gunmaking schools are covered in depth, both as to their development, and their contributing gunmakers. The second volume is biographies, with over 1100 identified to date and substantial information on those who left us a record. Additional photos run through the biographies, to add interest to that section.

The books are printed in the large format size like Shumway's great series, 9x12 pages to better show details of the guns. It should be a relatively complete work on Kentucky gunmaking, covering about 25 years of research and help from many friends and fellow collectors. The book has attractive and high quality paper, boards and dust cover. It had to get done; I've had too many people kicking my tail the last few years to stop the never ending research and "just get it done," and Jim Whisker has been one of them... and also one of my biggest supporters over the years.    Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 10:32:19 AM by Tanselman »

jwh1947

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2010, 08:09:48 AM »
Shelby, I'd hate to see your printing bill.  Your books will fill a gap in general knowledge and I look forward to their arrival.  Thanks, guys, for details on migration to Kentucky. 

Incidentally, you Kentuckians sure are resourceful.  Read just last week in newspaper about how farmers have adapted to loss of govt. subsidies for tobacco, so as to minimize negative impact on local economy.  Seems they have blended farming skills with rumrunning prowess. Apparently some get creative and go deep into Daniel Boone forest and adapt their skills to growing other substances, carrots if I recall correctly.   This bootleggin' thing must run deep in the bluegrass soul. 

keweenaw

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2010, 06:15:48 PM »
I understand a lot of that income loss in Kentucky is being made up not by distilling but by growing an alternative crop for smoking.  Dollar sales of this alternative crop in Indiana exceed the dollar return for growing corn.

Tom

jwh1947

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2010, 11:00:16 PM »
I'm stunned. You don't say?  First rule of farming: Grow what the people are buying.  Now I know why their hands are so steady, as well, it explains that creative, artsy bent down there.  I tried it once but ran a gouge through the palm of my hand and put the front sight on backwards. ;)

Now to those fellow travelers of the "Woodstock Generation" the only thing left to discuss is "rock and roll."
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 02:23:50 AM by jwh1947 »

Offline JTR

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2010, 12:50:57 AM »
Shelby,
Are you having your books printed with color photos, or B&W?

I expect, no matter the price, they'll sell quick!

John
John Robbins

Offline Tanselman

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2010, 02:40:23 AM »
John, I have taken the traditional approach and have gone with black and white. We discussed a color insert of 8 or 16 pages of great rifles, and it's still a possibility since it is not difficult to insert as a block. But I wanted to avoid the "coffee table" look of some of the recent colored books. The B&W printing is almost the same a color printing, so it's not a money issue. I just want the final product to look like, and be, more of an educational effort than a "look at all the pretty guns" type book. This has been discussed several times in the process. I am also not overly excited about adding color in "blocks" since then the guns get away from the discussion regarding them, and I want to keep illustrations next to the narrative about them, or that school. But that call doesn't have to be made for another month. Or in other words, I can  procrastinate on that issue a little longer.  Shelby

Offline JTR

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2010, 03:15:16 AM »
Shelby,
Since your still in a procrastinating mood, I'll throw my 2 bits at you.
Now, I can understand your wanting your books to be looked at as a scholarly and serious work, but my first thoughts when I opened Patrick Hornberger and Jim Gordon's recent books was simply Wow! The color pictures just seemed to bring the guns to life, and give them a much more three dimensional appearance than simple B&W seems to do!
Personally, I don't think full color pictures would give it a 'coffee table' look at all, in fact, just the opposite! After all, some of the high quality first bibles were hand colored, so you'd be in good company!
Of course, the quality of the color printing is very important in that the colors are adjusted to true life colors. Not picking here as I really enjoy Patricks book, but as some have said, the color is a bit dark and somewhat hides some of the subtile details. On the other hand, the color in Jims books is a more true representation of the true look of the guns.
Okay, 2 bits spent, and I'll probably buy them either way!

And I'll agree with Wayne in that the latest KRA bulletin is a huge improvement! With a couple of gorgeous guns on the cover to boot!

John   
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 03:28:33 AM by JTR »
John Robbins

Offline debnal

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2010, 03:24:03 AM »
I just got and read Mel Hankla's article and it is great. I absolutely love it when old myths are debunked. When I first got into Kentucky rifles in the 70's the books said the rifle was called the Kentucky rifle although none were made in Kentucky. Not only were they made there but they were of Golden Age quality and as early as the Rev War. Another myth which I will try to debunk soon- American gunsmiths did't carve or engrave as wll as their European counterparts. That's just not true.
Al

jwh1947

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2010, 11:46:16 PM »
My favorite recently debunked myth was the old line that the term "Kentucky Rifle" became part of our lexicon as a result of Battle of New Orleans.  My good friend A. Gutchess seems to have unearthed material that shows earlier usage of the term.

Now might be a good time for my friends at KRA board to review the language on page 4 of the official book and bring those words into alignment with contemporary research. I think the book is soon to be updated.  Thanks for considering.  Wayne

Mel Hankla

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2010, 04:40:16 PM »
 Wayne, your really getting close to telling your age.  ::) It's the clean livin' in dixie that makes for a steady hand and  the "creative, artsy bent" you mention. But to give a little history of our colorful southern nature, French Botanist, Constantine Rafinesque, wrote in his journal about the inhabitants of east Tennessee, southern Kentucky, northern Georgia, and the Carolina's, stating, "if these hill folk make it past half a century ( 50 years old) they seem to live to a ripe old age. I find this puzzling, as in my mother land we have concerned ourselves with diet as reason for personal health. Yet the entire diet of this populous appears to be fatty salt pork and corn liquor..."  :-*

jwh1947

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Re: Kentucky Kentuckies
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2010, 07:09:05 PM »
Love it.  Admittedly, if I were not so comfortable in central PA, I'd definitely move south.  Yankees too uptight and sensitive. Take grits and grease over Boston beans any day. Diet and exercise extremely overrated.  Bourbon cuts the grease and flushes tobacco tars out of circulatory system.  This I learned from a retired auto mechnic at the local diner while eating daily staple of 4 eggs, double home fries, scrapple, sausage, double wheat toast (for regularity) and pot of strong coffee.

And, while we are talking health, get this.  For you smokers, with new taxes, one pound of cigarette tobacco here in PA, $46.50.  Exact same tobacco...exact cut and material...labeled "pipe tobacco" $13.45, complete with free rolling machine.  Ain't America great?