.20 guage shotgun?

[B.Habermehl]

 At the Bloomsburg gunshow today I bought a origional double barrel percussion shot gun. Its in surprisingly nice shape, smooth bores and good locks with sharp full cock notches,and good half cock hooks. As far back in the bores as I can reach with a snap guage the bores mike at .625 dia. Would I use 19 guage wads or 20?  The muzzles are closer to .640 or a bit less.. Just wondering before I go and order supplies.  This gun is in such nice shape it spoke to me, "Take me home and let me speak again". So I gought it for a larcenous price. Antiques at a modern show sometimes are a deal.  So any shot collumn info would be apreciated..  BJH

[California Kid]

19 bore, I believe mics .626 according to circle- fly, 20 bore .615. Sounds like you want 19 bore wads if you intend to use circle-fly. They have a web site with a chart and probably the only game in town. I get 14 bore wads from them. The only place that makes them that I know of. 19 bore wads are .637.

[northmn]

Not uncommon for orginals to be a little wider in the muzzle, I ahve seen some almost paper thin.  Been told it is possibly from ramrod wear.  If they measure equally it may have been done to permit easier wad seating.  The only critical wad is a card wad, which I would order slightly oversize to permit a tight fit.  If it mics at 625 then a 637 would work.  Bores back then were not as precise as today.  Many old shotguns came with a wadcutter to match the bore, but they are not inexpensive.

DP

[Daryl]

According to Greener, many bore were tapered - many ways.  Tapers can come from tight at the breech, getting more open to the muzzle, or tight at the muzzle, straight taper looser to the breech, or tight in the middle for a couple or few inches and loose to the breech and muzzle both or more or less even which seems to be the norm. The tight in the middle was thought in the 1850's to shoot the strongest.  Chokes weren't well 'developed' until Greener did it in the 1870's. Until then, there was no science in their making or boring and the choked bores that were out there shot poorly - many wose than good cylinders.
20's are fun, as are 24's and 28's, 16's and 12's but the real shotguns start at 10 and run to 1 1/2".

[northmn]

. Just wondering before I go and order supplies.  This gun is in such nice shape it spoke to me, "Take me home and let me speak again". So I bought it for a larcenous price. Antiques at a modern show sometimes are a deal.  So any shot column info would be appreciated..  BJH

Some of the turkey hunters have developed some amazing loads for single shot fowlers.  However for a 20 bore for wing shooting you are best served with about an ounce of shot.  The originals shot "drop shot" which is nearly pure lead and not as hard as todays shot, even chilled shot.  Even with harder shot the "square" loads work very well for wing shooting.  Fora 20 a square load is about 7/8 oz.  They used to load the cartridges with 5/8 oz.  The issue is that of shot string where the shot actually does not hit the target at the same time.  Anyway for a 20 5/8-1 oz of shot will work well and likely save on the wear and tear on an original.  As to wad columns, VM star used only two cards wads between shot and powder.  Fiber wads are nice for a lot of shooting as you can lubricate them to cut down on fouling.  I have used plain water in trap matches.  At most you only need about 1/4 inch fiber for that purpose.  I have carried just card wads out in the field and split off a thin piece for overshot. Amazing what has been used for wadding in shotguns.

DP

[Daryl]

I haven't patterned my own yet - looking foreward to that come nicer weather.

[490roundball]

.625 falls into the 20 bore range
http://www.circlefly.com/html/wad_sizing_chart.html

What do the proof marks say for bore?  for example -->



I seem to remember the early British pieces had a different standard than the modern US shotguns - if Feltwad sees this I am sure he would know

[B.Habermehl]

Some thing about this shot gun says Belgum to me. Although  this is outside of my circle of knowledge. I bought it to be a shooter rather than a collector piece. I need to study up on proof marks to really learn anything.  BJH

[volatpluvia]

BJ,
Have a lot of fun with it at Union Co.  Just once this year say, "this shot is for Leon"
volatpluvia

[Levy]

Rick:  I think the 14 on the bottom of your barrels indicate that it is a 14 gauge shotgun or shoots a ball size of 14 balls per pound.  I think the size of most Belgium barrels is listed in mm.  I just bought a perc. shotgun that has one barrel marked 13 and the other 14 (go figure).

James Levy

[Levy]

My apologies Rick, I thought you were asking about the example shown and you obviously already know what you have.

James Levy

[Feltwad]

Has for the proof marks on the 20 gauge sxs if it is of Belgium manufacture it would have the following marks on the underside of the barrel at the breech end.First would be the letters EL in script lettering then the bore size in millimetres followed by either of the two marks ,an oval shape with the letters ELG on top of a star or the same with crown on the top of the oval.
The image of the barrels of Rick Losey are standard English barrels of Damascus twist .The maker of these barrels may be by Frederick Thomas  gun and pistol barrel maker {1851} 77.1/2 Litchfield St Birmingham The mark of BP below the crown is the provincial proof marks for 1855-68 these are for a barrel that is roughly bored and breech ed this was done at this stage of barrel making to see if the barrels withstood a proof charge ,if the barrel stood the charge it stamped with the bore size{14} and stamped with the  Birmingham proof house viewer mark of crossed sceptres  with the letter V and the crown on the top. The barrels then returned to the barrel maker who the struck of the barrel and lapped out the bores breech ed and finished them .When the gun was assembled the gun and barrels were then submit ed for  deffinite proof  and stamped crossed sceptres with the letter BPC under a crown this was the Birmingham proof mark.Hope this has been of some help

Feltwad

[Daryl]

Feltwad- have you any idea why the barrels would be stamped 14, when they are a large 20?  Lined? I don't think so.  It wouldn't make sense to line a .693" bore with a .033" walled liner, that totals .068" difference - bit more if it was bored out a bit first. Considering this gun predates most all choke boring in England - who knows?
On the other hand, Taylor's Manton is stamped 15, which it is.

[Feltwad]

Daryl I may have misunderstood this thread  but I think that we are talking about two different pairs of barrels .Those which B Habermichl bought were 20 bore {gauge} which he thought by the proof marks were Belgium. Those barrels off Rick Lousey I understand were an example of proof marks  which are British.
Feltwad

[Daryl]

My bad- sorry.

[490roundball]

sorry to have added confusion - 

I was just attempting to give an example.  Yes I basically know what I have.  cased with accessories.

Feltwad --The Locks are by Perkins, I assume he assembled it, I find no makers mark on the barrels