Author Topic: English Flint Halfstocks (Read 8313 times)

northmn · « **on:** February 07, 2010, 02:14:06 AM »

I have seen pictures of them and am sort of building one. Did the flintlock half stocks have two wedges to hold the barrel? I am planning on making it with about a 30" barrel as it is purely a deer hunting rifle, but will be in a 58 which is a relatively small caliber for an English Gun. Thinking that that short of a barrel does not need two wedges. While no self respecting English gun builder would build what I am building I still would like it to at least resemble an English gun. Plan on checkering it even. Using American walnut but heard it can be stained to resemble English walnut?

DP

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:29:00 AM »

Most of the half stocked English sporting rifles' pictures I've seen have had two slides, even with short barrels. But make what you want and please yourself. Daryl has a half stocked English smoothie with a 32" bbl and it has but one key, and looks great. Keep the forend short with one key.

Ray Nelson · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:27:08 AM »

I viewed two in the Tower of London several years ago. Both were double keyed on fairly long forestock with a poured pewter nosepiece, iron scroll trigger guard with single trigger and fowler looking buttplates. Also the locks were the small Maslin size flintlocks that closely resemble the L&R replacements for CVA locks these days. Wrist on both guns were checkered as well.

They were made by Tatham and very nice looking to me as I do like these style of rifles. Some Tathams were part of the American Western Fur Trade if that is significant at all to your background of information.

They also displayed a fullstock rifle in flintlock ignition as well.

Ray

SR James · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2010, 05:08:25 AM »

This is not a very good pic, but this is the one I built. Davis late English lock. One wedge, rust blued 31" swamped barrel, .54. Walnut stock from Pecatonica with contrasting wood nosecap. I also have a .62 barrel for it that I haven't fitted yet.

northmn · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2010, 12:38:39 PM »

Taylor, I suspected as much as what you stated, two slides, however the Forearm will be cut down to about 12 inches total, with an entry thimble and nosecap. Thatham would likely not let what I am building out of his shop, but I appreciate the input, especially about poured nosecaps. I have the English hardware as SR is displaying and pretty much will be making one similar, but with a straight barrel as that is one reaon I am shortening it. Another is that long barrels are a burden for treestand hunting etc. Also will be putting on sling swivel attachments

DP

Daryl · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2010, 05:17:30 PM »

Here's a couple 1/2 stocks, 6 bore and a 16 bore. Sweeeeeet!

hen · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2010, 08:04:43 PM »

I have not seen one poured nosecap on an English half-stock flint rifle in almost 50 years of collecting .That does not mean they don't exist !

hen · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2010, 08:07:51 PM »

Not used to posting,as you can see from my count : I should have stated that I have lived in England for the whole of my life.

smart dog · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2010, 09:50:15 PM »

Hi Northmn,
Yes, you can stain black walnut to look like English or European walnut. However, if you have the chance and can afford to buy English walnut, I urge you to do so. It usually is much nicer to work with than black walnut. For staining, the key thing is to eliminate the cold, purplish undertone of black walnut and replace it with a warm, yellow or orangy undertone. I do that by giving it a liberal wash in yellow aniline dye. Then I either just finish it or stain it more to achieve a specific English walnut effect. It is a trick recommended years ago by Kit Ravenshear.

dave

billd · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2010, 01:15:36 AM »

Would ebony be correct for a nose cap? If not, what would?
Bill

northmn · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2010, 01:52:22 AM »

I have a steel nosecap that I can blue, or sort of case blue. I have to go by pictures and bought that with the parts. I almost have the very interesting English buttplate installed so that I really do not want to change wood types. At the time I bought the parts was kind of fond of the English style, may have gone to a English full stock as seen in the bottom of Daryl's pictures. The Durs egg lock is inletted also. Still in pretty rough condition as I use blanks. As I stated it will not be a true English gun but a sort of with many similarities.

DP

Daryl · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2010, 08:11:00 AM »

Mine is water buffalo horn. OK - so it might be bison horn - but it's horn, which is proper, I think.

northmn · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2010, 04:37:33 PM »

As to another point, as I look at the shorter forestock and two wedges, I am seeing maybe one lug installed about 7 inches forward of the breech. While I can put in a shallow dovetail, how close to the breech would some of you go

Daryl, I like that set of sporting rear sights also. Are the leaves spring loaded or do they stay up by friction?

DP

Daryl · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2010, 04:41:49 PM »

springs
Here's my English 20 bore - with short forend and only 1 key. I think it looks OK.

Artificer · « **Reply #14 on:** February 08, 2010, 06:36:26 PM »

Daryl,

LOVED the pictures you provided. A question on the express rear sights, if I may. What ranges do you have them adjusted for? Also, do you find them better for target shooting or hunting?

Gus

Pete Allan · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2010, 07:07:35 PM »

Daryl -- Thanks for the fine pictures. There might be some disagrement but I feel the English were at least 100 years ahead of the Americas in gun design. Just little things like flat butt plates that were used on English rifles and shot guns in the 1700s are the standard in todays world. Thanks again

keweenaw · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2010, 10:36:06 PM »

There isn't any right or wrong on this. As we get into the percussion period the English pretty much settled on one key even on target rifles with long heavy barrels. With a 30" barrel and appropriate length forestock two keys are going to look pretty crowded. Water buffalo horn is the correct material for the fore end tip. With either a straight or straight tapered barrel octagon barrel you'll have plenty of thickness for dovetailing in your underlug anywhere you want if you keep your dovetail to about .045" deep. Because the halfstock design with a single key allows more stain to be put on the lug, you don't want to cut this too shallow or your wedge will end up getting loosened in the dovetail.

Tom

Daryl · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2010, 06:00:58 AM »

Alwaus a pleasrue, guys.
Gus - the sights are wide "V" for the point blank (standing) and 150 yard sight (first leaf). The second leaf is zero'd at 200 yards with 140gr. @f of todays GOEX and 165gr. zero's that leaf at 200 meters. The third leaf is zero'd at 300 meters for gong shooting. The 200 and 300 meter leafs have a small V notch as I just never got around to filing them out to a shallow V even though I consider 200 to be my farthest range for moose ro elk with that rifle.

As far as hunting sights, I don't think there is any better in an open metalic sight - coupled with a bead on the front. As far as a target sight, I am able to shoot between 1" and 1/12" for 5 at 100 yards off the bags, so the wide V is a good target sight as well. It is not only a close range sight. The small V notch allowed me a vertical lying rectangular 6 shot group of 1 1/4" wide by 3 1/2" high at 200 yards off the bags last summer, so that one seems to work too.

northmn · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2010, 03:15:51 PM »

I have an itch to try making a double leaf rear sight similar to that for the hunting rifle. one for up closer and one for up to maybe 150-200 yards. Where I hunt it isn't all bad to have a close range sight zeroed at even 50 yards as you have to sometimes thread a needle through brush even up close. I thought the two keys on a short forearm may look a bit crowded. Never really saw a need for two anyway as one does all the holding, whcih is likely why the English switched to one key. I will stay with the steel cap as we have a shortage of water buffalo in my neck of the woods, although likely the black part of a cow horn would be close

Right now I am not saying nice things about installing English buttplates. I have put a couple in before but still do not see an easy way to do it.

DP

Artificer · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2010, 05:33:56 PM »

Daryl,

Thank you for the information on the sights. One for 300 yard gong, now that's interesting.

We hardly ever get a 200 yard shot east of the Blue Ridge in Virginia. Do you think there would be value in splitting the distances for say 60, 125 and 200 yards or something like that?

Gus

Daryl · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2010, 05:59:19 PM »

Quote from: Artificer on February 09, 2010, 05:33:56 PM

Daryl,

Thank you for the information on the sights. One for 300 yard gong, now that's interesting.

We hardly ever get a 200 yard shot east of the Blue Ridge in Virginia. Do you think there would be value in splitting the distances for say 60, 125 and 200 yards or something like that?

Gus

For trail walks, in kindness to the targets themselves, I use only 3 drams of 2f for close shooting with this 14 bore. With this load, the gun is zero'd at 25 yards and again at 50 yards. Increasing the charge to 140 will get a 100 yard zero with the same sighting on the point blank sight, so no 'extra' close range sight is required. The 82gr. charge (3 drams) isn't as accurate at 50 yards or farther, but it will still shoot 2" at 50 although opens to about 4" to 5" at 100. I put up with the poorer accuracy at 50 to save targets and powder, but need all I can get at longer ranges.

Artificer · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2010, 06:25:42 PM »

Daryl,

Thank you for the further information.

Gus

keweenaw · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2010, 07:44:37 PM »

It's easy and fairly cheap to buy buffalo horn tips from about any knife maker supply house. A good piece will yield several foreend tips.

Tom

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Author Topic: English Flint Halfstocks (Read 8313 times)

northmn

northmn

Daryl

billd

northmn

Daryl

northmn

Daryl

keweenaw

Daryl

northmn

Daryl

keweenaw