stock carving patterns?

[caliber45]

Sorry, I ought to know more about how this forum works by now; read gun building, black powder shooting and items for sale/wanted every day. I checked the tutorials, looking for stock carving patterns, and didn't find much. Is there a way to specifically find patterns vs. "how-to" information? Would appreciate it. No particular "school;" I don't build historically. Just want some nifty behind-the-cheekpiece designs. Tks! -- paulallen, tucson az

[caliber45]

Thanks, Larry. Appreciate it! -- paulallen, tucson az

[TgeorgeZ]

I read that this is a good source of historical designs:

http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art/collection_database/the_libraries/the_gentleman_and_cabinet_maker_s_directorbeing_thomas_chippendale/objectview.aspx?collID=16&OID=160000130

[Dave B]

Paul,
What you are asking for can only be found by looking at lots of original pictures and the carving. The biggest issue you will find is you can't take a two dimensional photo and get the essence of whats happening with out a hundred different angled shots. Far better to actually find a few examples of the good carving on display at one of the shows. Talk with owners of the classics. I live in the poorest place to see long rifles out here on the left coast. I have had the benefit of knowing some of the best builders out in this area that have held the real deal and built some of the finest rifles around. Only by seeing, touching and questioning have I even started to produce a rifle that was worth showing.  Looking at a drawing on the butt stock requires you to think about what needs to be removed to make this work. If you don't know which side of that line you need to cut on, its not going to look right.

There are some great shots of carving in the Library. The thing that is real tough about what you are asking for is that the carving must be designed with the stock you are making  in mind. Your architecture may not match the one that the carving was intended to go on. Trying to put a Herman Rupp Lehigh co. pattern on Lancaster stock wont work. The profile of the area between the cheek piece section to the butt plate is longer on a Rupp than it is on a Isaac Haines stock.

You cant beat taking a class in carving from one of those seen listed here. Better yet find some one close to where you live and bring a six pack of Henry Weinhardts Root beer over. Pop in Wallace Gussler's carving a Kentucky rifle and enjoy. It was the best $29.99 I ever spent.

[TgeorgeZ]

Dave,

Everything you say makes sense to me.

What do you think about the reference book I mentioned?  I think Dover Reprints has it and it is mentioned along with a few other in "Recreating the American Longrifle" by Buchele, Shumway and Alexnader.

I have to rely a lot on written material and videos, which is, I guess, a lot like trying to learn surgery from a textbook.  Not good.

But I live in New Jersey and know of no actual experienced rifle builders near me I could contact for lessons.

[The other DWS]

there are also a couple of books on baroque and rococo design elements out there.  in my project to read all of the archived stuff on this site to get up to speed, I'm pretty sure I have run across a reference in the past month to one such book.

FWIW I googled the Dover pub website for their design series
http://store.doverpublications.com/by-subject-art-dover-design-library.html 
one baroque book pops up in that first page,  they also have some sort of on-line design stuff that might be worth looking at if you want to get into it that deep

However as mentioned design books are only a 2 dimensional approximation.  Speaking as one who simply cannot draw a smooth curve or round circle ornamental stock carving can be a daunting challenge.

[TgeorgeZ]

Thanks for that link.

[The other DWS]

FOLLOW-UP,

 if you use Dover's search tool with  "design, scroll"  it brings up a whole bunch of source books. they have a bunch of 18th and 19th century French source-books.  French ornamental  seems to have formed a core of art design for the era we are concerned with.
  Of course if someone has found a Viking or Scottish design motif long rifle I'd love to see it.  I'm surprised with the scotch/irish cultural traditions there is not more Celtic influence.

I just ordered a few books myself

[TgeorgeZ]

Now THAT would be awesome!!.  A longrifle carved with interlocking scrolls and circles like on the Oseberg Ship.

Check it out: http://home.online.no/~joeolavl/viking/osebergskipet.htm

It looks like the carvings are alive.

The Gokstad Ship was just as beautiful, but more utilitarian - probably the kind they used when they went a-viking  http://home.online.no/~joeolavl/viking/gokstadskipet.htm

No question, hands down.  The vikings made the most beautiful ships in history.
In addition to being ferocious fighters, they were incomparable artists and artisans.

[fm tim]

If you are particularly interested in Lancaster County, contact Susanne Bicio at Muzzleloaders Builders Supply for her book of Lancaster county carvings in full size.

"The Book of Lancaster Carving Details for the Gunmaker"

Suasnne Warren-Bicio
PO Box 160  3810 CR 5500
Ozone, AR 72854-0160

[Larry Luck]

I believe MBS has been sold, and is now being operated by someone elas.

Here is a link to their website. http://muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/

I did not see the book that was mentioned, but another looks promising:

52000 - The Johnson Record
“A Collection of Patterns for the Muzzleloader Builder” A huge compilation of engraving patterns, patchbox outlines, ornate inlays and carving designs obtained from a lifetime of work by Dale Johnson. Gathered designs from original rifles and pistols over his entire professional career. All presented in full size! Soft cover 8-1/2 x 11 and spiral bound to lay flat on your work table! Designed so you can copy for your own use.

Search term "patterns"

Good luck,

Larry Luck

[fm tim]

You can obtain both books from Susanne at the above address

[Larry Luck]

Tim,
Thanks for clarifying that.  Hope she is doing well.
Larry Luck

[jwh1947]

Builders frequently use what we refer to as "pattern books."  Some stand out as exceptional because they show some good guns and put them in groupings.  The dirtiest, smudged set of books in my shop are George Shumway's Rifles of Colonial America. Wayne

[Karl Kunkel]

Susanne's website:

HistoricalArmsmaker.com