Dan, it's folks like you that we collectors really like! Because of the 'fussy factor' y'all pass by most pieces that the rest of us don't find fault with. A nipple and a drum are nothing in the field of restoration/collecting. I really hope that you are just kidding. If not? Well...............I'm
guessing that there isn't too much up on your wall.
Regards-El Reekie
I have a certain level of distrust of collectors in general, this is not personal, I do not know you other than being a valued contributor here. Its just a fact and is a valid feeling based on experience. Nor to I "collect" other than some contemporary guns I have acquired. I make guns, and I like to shoot them, having old rifles like Leman's I can't shoot hanging on my wall has little interest to me for the most part. I don't have wall space for some things I would like to have up where I could look at them much less something that has been in a barn for 100 years. Leman's hold little interest for me. Many (the "Connestoga" line especially) constitute the T/C "Hawken" of their day though this is something an insult to most Leman's. Unless I could buy it cheap and sell it for more I have no interest in owning a Leman.
I would LOVE to have an Armstrong or a JP Beck or a N. Hawk swivel breech. But unless I find one under the floor of my house its not going to happen. So what I have on the wall is not relevant. If I had a $20000-$50000 JP Beck I would likely sell it anyway.
Back the ethics thing.
Where does the line get drawn between antiquing a new drum or nipple and faking something more valuable like a name on a barrel? Or perhaps converting an original percussion gun to flint to make it worth more. Collectors, some at least, used to do a lot of improvements it would seem. This is less common now I suspect than it was 80 years ago.
There is no problem with replacing a nipple or a drum if someone feels the need but I wonder what the point is on a gun that can't be shot anyway. Unless one intends to make it appear as original to the gun then we enter into the when is it fraud and when is it restoration question. Putting on a drum from DGW is hardly "restoration". Rust it up to fool some one and make it worth more. Yeah yeah I know its a thin line. What would "I" do? I would likely brown the part to match. This makes it less garish. But pitting this part is pointless unless deception is the goal. It goes to what Gary Brumfield called "the 6 ft/6 in rule".
So far as not buying a gun because its not "perfect". Collectors look at guns from a far different standpoint that a builder will. I buy old guns for several reasons. A barn find ML or similar is only valuable to me in as far as what are the DETAILS how its put together and the stock is shaped, how thick is the wood at the forend. This is the value to me. But collectors look at guns differently. This is apparent in Kindig's book, a wonderful resource, as well.
What caliber is it, what does it weigh, what is the rate of twist if its rifled?
Whisker's books are mostly coffee table variety. So we have no idea what caliber the guns are, we have no idea if smooth or rifled etc etc. Thus while Whisker has done a great service he still gets a D or F from the builders at least myself and some others I know.
RCA is great. But at a weight and especially a barrel muzzle dimension could have been included.
I would also point out that what a ML is worth in Virginia or Kentucky or Kalifornia or Las Vegas may be somewhat different that what it will sell for at some 50 table gunshow in Montana.
To the right person the Leman might be a 1000-1500 dollar gun but getting that from someone who is going to resell? Not likely where I live. The RESELLER might price it at this after he gives 400-500 bucks for it but he will not pay that for it.
I posted what I thought the guy might get for it. What something is really worth is often far different than what someone will actually pay for it.
So far as the fraud thing. Its a dirty word here since its so common in the field Kentucky rifles and accessories. I have been told in print the mind set is "let the buyer beware" which is just another version of PT Barnum's "There's a sucker born every minute".
I also know that repair work is often a good idea but
I have a percussion rifle I got in a trade, marked NY gun nice quality but it was shortened 3-4" at the breech, maybe in 1880 or 1950 and needs the drum removed and patent breech made to match the standing breech. But this then results in more "screwing with the old gun" thing since I would have to move the key slot in the barrel, again and plug the drum hole in the side of the barrel.
Its hanging on the wall in the shop right now as a double irritant, percussion and its been "hacked" in the past but would make a good shooter. Will have to pull the breech and look at the twist. Its turned for a starter this will cost 200 bucks in material and labor to make since I am sure its picket rifle and needs one. So much for my not picking up guns that are pristine.
It is nicely shaped and has a really nice single set trigger. Barrel is still about 1 5/16" at the breech 42 caliber replacement "lollipop" tang sight. I really kinda like the thing except for the drum with the copper washer.
Of course since it likely was made 1850s-60s rifle I could write back story as to how the breech blew out when a Union (or Confederate) sniper shot a Confederate (or Union) general then the gun was field expedient shortened at the breech and it was then used to shoot yet another Union (or Confederate) officer. Anyone know of any Civil War generals killed with 40-42 caliber picket balls that I can "document"? This would make the rifle worth a lot more and save me worrying about the breech since I could then sell it at a good profit.
I have been 3 days writing this so as to hopefully not excessively insult anyone so I guess I need to move on to other things. Like income tax.....
Dan
