Author Topic: First Shots with New Gun  (Read 10489 times)

Buffler Razz

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First Shots with New Gun
« on: September 02, 2008, 03:31:43 AM »
Well I got the itch to take a few shots with the new Chambers Mark Silver today. I was almost afraid to load her up after all that work putting her together. But, I could not wait any longer. I set up a bench at the back of the yard and a 25 yd target. Since I had 3f in my horn and my measure throws 70 gr (my hunting load for my 50) I figured I give it a go.

Here is my target off the bench for the first 3 out of the gun. Needless to say, I'm a happy camper. I hope to wring her out over the next few weeks in prep for the November gun season. I'd appreciate any info on loads that you tend to favor in a 58. The barrel is a Rice 42" 1 in 66 twist.
Thanks
Razz


chapmans

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 04:30:51 AM »
  Razz,
    I have a percussion .58 GM barrel 1-70" twist 34" long 1" across the flats It has killed between 30 and 40 deer my load is 90 gr of ffg Goex with a .570 swagged ball, pocket drill patch and Hodgdens spit patch for lube. I carry a loading block with .565 balls because they load a little easier in the field but I have never had to use them on a deer because I have always killed them with the first shot, the closest was 15 yds and the farthest was 120, most were 75 or less. In my gun this load will shoot in 1" at 50 yds off the bench. Just for fun I shot a 3 shot group at 150 yds and the group measured 1.5" I shot it in 1989 and I still have the target, It was sighted dead on at 100yds and it dropped 8" at 150yds. I never shot a deer that far away although my neighbor shot one at 157 steps  with it and it entered the point of sholder and was found just under the hide on the opposite hip!!
              Regards, Steve C

Offline Scott Bumpus

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 04:48:13 AM »
Nice shootin, hope she makes meat for ya!
YOU CAN ONLY BE LOST IF YOU GIVE A @!*% WHERE THE $#*! YOU ARE!!

Daryl

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 04:56:24 AM »
Razz - glad to hear you're happy with your .58 so far.  In my 3 different .58's, the preference was for a .575" ball and .020" denim patch. Properly crowned, it is an easy load to start with one whack of the hand on the starter's knob and load on the powder with the hickory or steel rifle's rod.  All of my rifles required more powder than you are using and actually preferred the velocity to be around 1,800fps to 1,850fps.  I didn't use 3F, only 2F and 140gr. was their normal accuracy load.  The rates of twist was 72" for the H and A Underhammer and Zouave and 66" or .60" for the GRRW barrel.  Less powder in any of them produced saucer sized groups at 100 yards of the bench. The heavier charge would hold 2" or better. Deer don't take that 'much' killing, but to have an accurate, flat shooting load one can forget trajectory out to about 120 yards did.  If you need a 'fast' second shot, you might consider working up some paper ctg. loads. In the larger bore rifles 9or smoothbores, a re-load can be done in 8 or 9 seconds.

 Since you asked, my opinion is that your .010" patch is over .010" too  thin such a small ball.  I'm not into having to wipe the bore often (or  ever) due to fouling buildup.  Properly loaded, the rifle will not foul.  If if does, your bore is changing shot to shot - never the same = lack of consistancy.  Use of a good lube and tight patch/ball combinations will wipe the bore clean each time you load and thus leave it the same from shot to shot. Consistancy in shooting a black powder rifle is 50% of the rifle's accuracy capability. Too, shooting at 25 yards teaches little as to the rifle and load's ability. Shooting at 50 yards is about as close as your target should be to show a load's true capability. Even a properly loaded .62 cal. smoothbore will cut a single 1 1/8" diameter hole for 5 or more shots at 25 yards.  

jim m

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2008, 06:05:26 AM »
that looks good Razz. I just keep bumpin up the charge till the group spreads out. and how about some pics of that gun

BrownBear

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 06:11:47 AM »
Both my 58's are cappers. 

The GRRW Hawken (36" barrel) has a very tight bore and won't even drop a bare .575 past the muzzle.  A .570 goes but hangs frequently on the slightest irregularity in a ball.  Consequently I'm using .562 balls and ticking patches.  It seems pretty democratic about loads, and I've settled on 90 grains of Goex 3f for a moderate hunting load.  It will cut ragged holes at 50 yards from the bench with that load.  It shoots just as well at 110 grains, but I'm usually shooting deer inside 50, so it's not necessary.

The second is a custom with a 26" barrel.  I could use .570's in it and have the mould, but it's easier just to go ahead and use the .562's and ticking.  It's intended for close range very fast shooting, and really shines at that job.  My hunting load is 80 grains of 3f, though it will certainly take more.  It shoots between 1 and 2 inches from the bench all day long with that load.  I could probably tighten it up measurably with a tighter combo, but I just don't see the point.  It's just not a range gun, while it excels at its intended job in the woods.

northmn

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2008, 03:51:03 PM »
I used to use a 58 and had one that wanted 110 3f with a 575 RB or else 70 grains 3f.  Nothing in between shot as well, but I used it in matches until I sold it.  Another 58, Green River barrel, shot well with lighter loads.  Sold it too.  The price was right.  As to rapid reloading in the field, I carried loading blocks and a powder flask.  Used them once, and missed both times.  An adjustable sight was off.  Mostly I carry a block made for 4 ball in one pocket, a loose ball and patch for a regular reload, a powder flask (32 pistol sized) with measure tied on and a priming horn in another pocket.  A tool kit with a screwdriver/knapping hammer and extra flint in a small bag.  You really do not need to carry a lot of stuff on your person deer hunting and can leave a lot of extras at camp.  5 spare shots and one in the gun mean 6 shots at deer.  I better darn well score with one of them.

DP

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2008, 04:24:28 PM »
Not owning a .58 I'm sticking my neck out here in saying 'thicker patch, more powder and that the shots really should cut each other at 25 yds from a bench.  I do use a .54 Jaeger for deer! :)

BrownBear

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2008, 05:31:31 PM »
As to rapid reloading in the field, I carried loading blocks and a powder flask.  Used them once, and missed both times.  An adjustable sight was off.  Mostly I carry a block made for 4 ball in one pocket, a loose ball and patch for a regular reload, a powder flask (32 pistol sized) with measure tied on and a priming horn in another pocket.  A tool kit with a screwdriver/knapping hammer and extra flint in a small bag.  You really do not need to carry a lot of stuff on your person deer hunting and can leave a lot of extras at camp.  5 spare shots and one in the gun mean 6 shots at deer.  I better darn well score with one of them.

DP


Sounds like we could swap kits for deer hunting and not miss a thing.  Only real difference I can see, my block holds three balls rather than four.

The only time I need more than that is for snowshoe hare.  My 32 cal loading blocks hold 6 balls, and I carry two of them along with a small drawstring bag with extra balls, patching and lube for reloading the blocks.   Yeah, snowshoe hare hunting can feature a whole lot of action and reloading your blocks.  Speed isn't the issue I'm trying to solve with the blocks though.  It's handling those tiny little balls in the cold while wearing gloves.  Talk about fumbly fingers!

Daryl

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2008, 06:32:22 PM »
Brownbear- we also hunt snowshoe hares here too, or at least, used to. Head-shots only count, kind of a contest. We had to wear missery slippers, of course as the snow wa sover 6' deep - in March with only the tips of the willows showing - sunny day, hares all over the place sitting beside aspen trees - spot the eye then the whole hare would become visible.  A 10 shot loading block in not out of order for a full day's shooting, with extras in the pouch. Dang dog kept trying to ride on the tails of my snowshoes - result- face plant!
 Sorry for the off-post.

BrownBear

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2008, 07:09:28 PM »
Ha! 

It's not off-post for me.  In fact, I use reduced loads in my 50, 54, and 58 cals lots of the time, too.  As for dogs on the mysery slippers, one of my nicknames is Ole Snowinthenostrils.   ::)

Daryl

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2008, 09:53:34 PM »
Both Keith with his .75 and my .69 used to use 30gr. 2F for the bunny charge. At 25 yards, they shot almost on the sights, and would of course punch an oblong single hole for groups of 4 or 5 at that range.  They were so slow, but accurate enough for the normal close shots and you could distinctly hear the ball crunching on through. What fun!

 Keep working on your loads, Razz, both ball size and/or patch size - you'll come up with a combination you can live with.  I do strongly suggest you shoot at 50 yards or farther, though.  75 would be a good comprimize between 50 and 100.  Generally speaking, any load that shoots well at 75 to 100 yards, shoots well at all ranges. 50 yard groups are an excellent indicator for load potential. 25 yards is too close for extablishing hunting loads, in my honest opinion.  I do use 25 yards for sight-in, though, then check at longer ranges to establish the drop.  With hunting loads in the 1,800 fps range, a 25 yard zero generally gives a 50 yard zero as well - to about 1" to 1 1/2" high at 50 yards.  This depends on sight height, of course, but in general terms, is close enough for hunting without drop worries to 100yards for a centre hold on a deer. The most drop below the line of sight you will see is perhaps 3", still well within a deer's vitals.  Sighting for 1" high at 25 yards should give centre holds to about 115yards, maybe more depending on sight height.

Buffler Razz

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 04:09:15 AM »
Thanks every one!

Jim M.. pictures are in the gun building forum and on my photobucket accounthttp://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd32/bufflerrazz/Mark%20Silver%20Virginia%20Rifle/?albumview=slideshow


Daryl,
I appreciate the info and advice. I'm headed to our camp this weekend and plan on really working on some loads for it. I have lots of room to shoot down there. I was a little lean on 2f and didn't want to start pulling my 45/70 shells apart just to have the powder. That problem is solved now.
Thanks again,
Razz

Offline Dphariss

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 08:10:31 PM »
I would agree with Daryl. My only 58 was used with 120 gr of FFFG.
If the rifle shoots well with less all the better unless you shoot game over unknown ranges.
I view everything as a hunter first and like flat trajectories so at LEAST 1600 is needed. Preferably 1800 or so with ball sizes in the 50-58 range.
My 54 will make over 1800 with 90 gr Swiss FFFG.
My 16 bore with a .662 ball shoots flat enough at 1600 but this is also a recoil consideration.

Dan
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 08:11:18 PM by Dphariss »
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Offline Dphariss

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 08:13:12 PM »
Brownbear- we also hunt snowshoe hares here too, or at least, used to. Head-shots only count, kind of a contest. We had to wear missery slippers, of course as the snow wa sover 6' deep - in March with only the tips of the willows showing - sunny day, hares all over the place sitting beside aspen trees - spot the eye then the whole hare would become visible.  A 10 shot loading block in not out of order for a full day's shooting, with extras in the pouch. Dang dog kept trying to ride on the tails of my snowshoes - result- face plant!
 Sorry for the off-post.

Misery slippers, love it.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Mike R

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2008, 09:12:27 PM »
My old long lamented [and traded off] .58 liked a minimum of 100 gr ffg with a .565 ball and thick patch [denim, but I never mic'd it].   Your load seems a bit light for the .58.  It takes a bit of powder to get that big ball a rollin'....

Daryl

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2008, 05:24:26 PM »
There was a guy at hefley, with what looked to be a Bedford 1/2 stock caplock in .58.  He shot only 60gr. of powder, and was quite deadly out to about 30 yards, using enough patch to not have any fouling problems for the entire shoot, but he missed almost all the longer shots, which I kinda figured he would.  The light charges just don't seem to hold the accuracy 'out there'.  His barrel was a GRRW he's scrounged somewhere, so it had a 60" or 66" twist. My Hawken had the same barrel and would hold fairly well at 50 yards with 90gr. 2F, but opened to about 6" at 100 with that load. With 140gr., it was very accurate at all ranges.  BTW- hit a grouse in the grouse at 15 yards with a 140gr. moose load and it will disintegrate.  I used .575" balls and .022" denim (10 ounce).

Buffler Razz

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2008, 04:22:02 AM »
Thanks Daryl.
Did some shooting this afternoon. Weather was abit iffy and sprinkling so I shot at the short range in the front yard of the cabin, 65 yards. .020 spit patches went down nicely and kept the fowling down too. Fired patches looked good. Grouped better with 110 gr of 2f than 100 gr. Got her printing just at zero and keeping 3 in about an inch, can get 2 to cluster but not a trio just yet.

Will keep working on her over the next few weeks. Overall I am real happy. Was able to trim the front sight down and walk the impacts up the paper nicely. Don't want to go too far until I settle on a load. Shoould be able to stretch her out the week after next.

Thanks for the advice!
Razz

Daryl

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2008, 04:59:20 PM »

Razz - some guns shot low with increased charges, some shot higher - you'll get it straight. It sometimes is helpful to have a spare front sight- one for plinking loads, one for hunting loads - if need be.  On the English gun I had, my trail-walk load of 82gr. gave zero's 50 yards closer than the full powdered hunting load, ie: the 2F hunting load was zero'd at 100 yards while with the same sight picture, the 82gr.3F trail load was zero'd at 50. That was a happy situation.

Buffler Razz

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Re: First Shots with New Gun
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2008, 02:02:11 PM »
Thanks Daryl. I didn't want to go too far with the front sight and have plenty of room to file the rear if need be. And, I have another front sight too.

I really enjoyed working up loads back when I shot a lot of suppository guns, mostly for hunting, and now I can have instant gratification. Work up some load ideas, go to the range and fire away.  :)
Razz