Author Topic: Pea Picker  (Read 16945 times)

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2010, 01:48:56 AM »
Virtually everything we do is an interpretation at best. Perhaps "fantasy" guns if you will. We are carrying on a tradition, just like those before us we build on the art that preceded us.  Be they makers of the 18th century or guns that were made by our mentors in the 1970s.
Exact copies of original guns are impossible to do, as Bill suggests, unless you have the original in the shop and thus can really get a feeling for the lines. Photos can be very misleading. Light, the lenses used etc etc. can change how the rifle appears in print.
Then we have missing parts, worn off carving etc etc that can make copying the original rifle impossible without examining it in person with a magnifier. In this case how does one deal with the damage done by the blacksmith or lower quality repairs of the wrist? This alone makes and absolute copy of the rifle as it left Schroyer's shop impossible.
For the most part the best that can be done is to make something that appears as if it came from the same shop by the same hand, or even a supervised apprentice since few of us have the access needed to make a true copy of anything.
If Schroyer made another rifle with the carving used on the "Pea Picker" it would not be identical so a change to a different Schroyer patchbox or some variation in carving is not a valid complaint unless the rifle is supposed to be an exact copy which this is not by Snyder's own comments.
We might nit-pick if the rifle was representative of the work of the time by the maker in question. Look for errors in line, lumps, bumps, corners and angles. If it contains no departure from Schroyer's work then it would pass the test of being a proper representation of his work if the lines are good.
So I do not believe that making an approximation of the Pea Picker is unacceptable.
I am of course prejudiced, I made an approximation of the Antes' swivel that I like very much. But as I generally do I changed things, but its not intended to be a museum quality copy. I am someone carrying on the art now 250 years out. The carving on this rifle behind the cheek is very unique as well.  Putting certain rifles off limits just because they have some unique feature would greatly reduce the number of rifles we could copy or use as guides.
<Paragraph containing radial thinking and "extreme"comments concerning guild like forum to improve the art deleted to save me from being verbally pummeled>

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

roundball

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2010, 02:10:13 AM »

"...decided to build a fairly close copy as a spec. piece..."


That old thing ????????




(wish it was in MY gun rack  ;D)

Tip-o-the-hat to your building skills !!

Offline Ian Pratt

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2010, 05:40:44 AM »
Dan, I'll send you a dollar if you post the missing paragraph

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2010, 04:29:27 PM »
Excellent discussion! I like the gun....... Bill's and Dans' comments i find take me deeper into thinking about what I am doing when building a gun and that is surely not bad.  I suspect whe each make tradeoffs for each gun we build. I am thinking about trying my hand at an exact copy of an original that I can put my hands on ....so now I need to think really carefully abpout how that project will be done. It will probably take a while.........
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Offline Darrin McDonal

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2010, 01:44:16 AM »
I totally agree with Dans point of view on this. No point in rehashing.
Darrin
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Colonial Williamsburg
Owner of Frontier Flintlocks

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2010, 02:56:30 AM »
Excellent discussion! I like the gun....... Bill's and Dans' comments i find take me deeper into thinking about what I am doing when building a gun and that is surely not bad.  I suspect whe each make tradeoffs for each gun we build. I am thinking about trying my hand at an exact copy of an original that I can put my hands on ....so now I need to think really carefully abpout how that project will be done. It will probably take a while.........

If you can use the original as a guide its just a matter of getting the necessary parts made.
Go for it.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline B Shipman

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2010, 07:51:45 AM »
Hey, got everybody thinking. Obviously I do the same thing and rationalize it.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2010, 08:44:31 AM »
Hey, got everybody thinking. Obviously I do the same thing and rationalize it.

People need to think and discussion is good. If brings out things that need to be considered.
I post questions or statements to get comments started since I learn a lot int he process though I sometimes ruffle feathers.
I see no problem with variations at least up to a point. Others might. Its choice.
I have no way to make a absolute copy of an original if I wanted too.
I would love to have a N Hawk Swivel in the shop for about 6 months but that is not going to happen. A friend with a near photographic memory  had one in his shop for awhile years back and this has helped some. I have a pair of barrels, now I need to start making parts and decide if I really want to do a N. Hawk buttstock or make a different style all together. But I have 2 guns ahead of this project 3 if I count scratching up the swivel breech I have been shooting for about a year in the white ::)

An original Armstrong would be nice too I want to make one for my wife but fat chance of someone coming by and handing me one to examine for a few months.
So I stumble along as best I can.
Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline B Shipman

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2010, 07:45:59 AM »
Dan, I'm building a bench copy N. Hawk now. And it is daunting with a single barrel. The skill set is just not mine. Consider how long it takes to make a bone cheek piece inlay from a cow femur with a slight dovetail. making a set of pipes is routine, but making them exactly like Hawk with a bump on the tang and everything else. Making a forestock wear plate is easy, but making one that extends exactly from rear pipe to T,G. tang is hard. Full comb plate  ect.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Pea Picker
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2010, 05:24:16 PM »
Dan, I'm building a bench copy N. Hawk now. And it is daunting with a single barrel. The skill set is just not mine. Consider how long it takes to make a bone cheek piece inlay from a cow femur with a slight dovetail. making a set of pipes is routine, but making them exactly like Hawk with a bump on the tang and everything else. Making a forestock wear plate is easy, but making one that extends exactly from rear pipe to T,G. tang is hard. Full comb plate  ect.

I want to make a brass forend just to see if I can do it. But not having the access to originals hampers doing a bench copy. Its the subtleties that cause problems as you well know.
As a result if I make a brass forend panel swivel its going to be "N. Hawk like" .

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine