Author Topic: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?  (Read 9465 times)

Offline Rolf

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Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« on: May 09, 2010, 11:04:52 PM »
I saw that Log cabin had a print of a classic Tennessee flintlock pistol for sale.
What defines the difference between a Kentucky pistol and a Tennessee pistol?

Best regards

Rolfkt

Offline tom patton

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 02:38:26 AM »
Other than the obvious place of origin there is no real difference. I can think off hand of only two pairs of pistols from Tennessee.There is the silver mounted  pair by Baxter Bean in the Tennessee State Museum and illustrated by S.E.Dyke ,"Thoughts on the American Flintlock Pistol"

Another pair of Bean pistols by Robert Bean as I recall are privately owned. Robin Hale helped reunite this pair many years after one{?} was stolen.I don't know the whereabouts of these pistols at present.

I had and sold a 19th century  Sevier County pistol which was rather primitive and I believe it is probably still owned in East Tennessee.I also had a fairly small back action Nashville pistol which I traded for a Rev War horn.

I'm sure there may be others but these are only ones I can recall.
Tom Patton

Offline G-Man

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 06:10:05 PM »
In addition to the ones Tom pointed out, there are some great Tennessee pistols made by the Bull brothers (Elisha and John).  You can see photos of them on the "Contemporary Makers Blog Spot" - do searches for Elisha Bull and John Bull.  These are also silver mounted if I recall correctly, but the hardware is shaped similar to what you see on their iron mounted guns.  There are also some nice contemporary ones made by Hershel House and Andy Mock on that website - with iron mounts.

From what I have seen on southern Appalachian pistols, there was not much in between - they either appear to have been made up as sort of a luxury item, often made with coin silver mounts for officers, wealthier folks, etc., or very basic stripped down functional pieces.  The typical  mountain farmer looking to put small game in the pot would probably not have much need for one.  I could see a bear hunter wanting a sturdy big bore piece for a back up though.  Also, by the time many of the classic Tennessee rifles were being made, you overlap into the cap and ball revolver era, so I think that is another reason Tennessee pistols are so rare.

Guy
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 06:12:22 PM by Guy Montfort »

Offline Dave B

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 05:56:36 AM »
I am not sure where this came from but it is an Elisa bull pistol.









Dave Blaisdell

jwh1947

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2010, 03:56:21 AM »
If someone can discern a Tennessee pistol from a Kentucky pistol...do tell!  This I must hear. 

Offline G-Man

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2010, 05:04:14 PM »
Rolfkt - To expand some more on what the others have said, I am assuming we are using the term "Kentucky" here for early American muzzleloading pistols in general, with those made in Tennessee included in that group.  You are asking if there are any features commonly found on pistols from Tennessee (and in this case probably east Tennessee) that help distinguish them from those made elsewhere, correct?

There are so few documented surviving pistols made in east Tennessee, much so fewer than rifles, that it is hard to generalize.  There is usually a lot less there in the way of hardware and decoration to go on.  For example, patchboxes on Tennessee rifles are often one of the features that are very distinctive, but not there on pistols.  

In the case of pistols, I think what we do have are more maker-specific features than broad regional characteristics.  When you look at the Bull pistols, at first glance they can appear very much like pistols being made in other states in the early 1800s, with lots of English influence. There are subtle features so that if you are familiar with the Bulls' work, and know they worked in Tennessee, then these features jump out at you as being by the Bulls and thus we then tend to assign them as being Tennessee features.   But we have the benefit in their case of knowing where and when they worked and the features are so subtle that if the pieces were not signed it would be difficult to tell, if you were not familiar with their work- i.e. the short tab on the entry thimble, the sideplates. etc.  And the sideplates are a shape that although common to much of the Bulls' work, is very similar to English pistols of the period, as well as American pieces made in places like Baltimore, or really anywhere in the late flint period.  Jerry Noble's books indicate that John Bull may have apprenticed in Baltimore before rejoining his family after they moved to East Tennessee in the 1790s so perhaps therein lies part of the answer.

On the other hand, the Baxter Bean pistols look like to me what you would expect someone who makes Tennessee rifles would make if they were to make a pistol.  Very stylized with long, lean architecture.  The guard has a long bow and East Tennessee style double set triggers, which are atypical for American pistols. The rear sideplate has the elongated bar on it's bottom, similar to Bean rifles but unlike the shorter bar that was a fairly ubiquitous pistol sideplate pattern of the early 1800s.  And, perhaps the other most distinctive feature is the tang running all the way down the back of the grip to the butt of the pistol, again not something you would typically expect on pistols made from areas farther north and east like the major gunmaking centers of Virginia or Pennsylvania but something you would expect from a Bean.  But there are always exceptions.  And again, while these are common regional features of east Tennessee gunmaking in general, it is hard to say that when speaking specifically of pistols, whether or not they were common.  

One thing that does seem somewhat common to the few Tennessee pistols I have seen is the use of silver mounts that appear to have been fabricated from multiple pieces of sheet silver, rather than cast brass or silver hardware.

Guy
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 05:51:00 PM by Guy Montfort »

Offline Rolf

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2010, 09:16:06 PM »
I've seen pictures of a couple of Bull pistols, but I've never seen a picture of a Bean pistol. Please, could anyone post pictures?

Best regards
Rolfkt

jwh1947

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2010, 05:04:38 AM »
Thanks, useful info.

Offline LynnC

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2010, 07:20:15 AM »
Rolfkt,
I think someone once posted a link to the Bean pistol pictures.
If I remember correctly, the bean pistol is in the Tennesse State Museum in Nashville TN.  Perhaps you could find it thru a google search...........Lynn
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline G-Man

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2010, 02:13:36 PM »
I think I posted that link once a long time ago, but unfortunately they have redone their website and you can no longer pull up the photos of the Baxter Bean pistols.  Or at least I can't find them on it anymore.  However, the pistols are shown in "Kentucky Rifles 1750-1850" by Jim Johnson (which I believe some folks used to maybe also refer to as the "2nd KRA book" (?)) It showed a very broad sampling of rifles and pistols from many regions.

They are superb pieces.  I would enjoy seeing more like them.  I thought one of the other books out there showed another Baxter Bean pistol, perhaps one of the pair that Tom mentioned, but went back through my books and I might have been mistaken.  The Bull pistols are fantastic too - they have been displayed at the Norris show and they have a lot of personality.
 
I guess if I were going to build one and could not find an exact pistol I wanted to base it on, I would pick a Tennessee rifle maker whose work  I liked and sort of morph the features down to scale for a pistol.  When you look at the Bull and Bean pistols, this is basically what they did.  I would have no problem mounting one in iron, like Hershel and Andy Mock have done on some of theirs shown on the blog spot.  I suspect some were made that way.  I would, however base it on one of the earlier makers, say 1840s or earlier, as by the 1850s-60s cap and ball revolvers were becoming available and I suspect that there would have been few Tennessee pistols made in that style after that period.  The rifles hung on for a long time as they were very common useful working tools for the farm, hunting, and especially for the shooting matches which were deeply rooted in the culture of the area.


Good luck

Guy

Offline G-Man

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2010, 05:27:29 PM »
Well, a picture is worth 1000 words.  Art and Jan Riser have posted a photo of the Baxter Bean pistols we have been discussing, on the Blog Spot.  So for those who wish to get a look:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vb_Yo_ELC48/S_Pviv1kTQI/AAAAAAAAc2A/yF-9oOFnCxs/s1600/baxterpistol_lg_ret.jpg

PS - it is hard to see, but the tangs run all the way down and wrap under the butts - you can just barely see it on the top pistol.
 
Best regards,

Guy
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 05:29:18 PM by Guy Montfort »

Offline LynnC

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2010, 06:35:58 PM »
What a surprise!  There they are on the blog.  You reckon they check ALR like we check the blog :) - Every Day!
The price of eggs got so darn high, I bought chickens......

Offline art riser

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Re: Whats a classic tennessee flintlock pistol look like?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2010, 07:09:13 PM »
we certainly do...