Author Topic: finding some chemicals for rust bluing.  (Read 10165 times)

rifle

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finding some chemicals for rust bluing.
« on: June 28, 2010, 05:10:01 PM »
Can someone,maybe DR.TimBoone, give me a contact to "The Science Company"? I saw it mentioned in a post on ferric nitrate stock stain.
I want to find nitric acid and hydrocloric acid and then some regent grade iron powder to make a "rust blue" formula.
I heard tell that "sodium nitrate" in the nitric acid/hydrocloric acid/iron powder mix can give some actual "BLUE" to metal rust blued with it. Trouble is I don't know where to get any chemicals.
I tried some places off the net and can't get any chemicals sent out to me.
I can get "Nitre Blue" salts that contain sodium nitrate,sodium nitrite, and potassium nitrate. How to separate the sodium nitrate from the others is something I can't do.
Anyway....I can't experiment with the "Rust Bluing" unless I can get some chemicals.
I want to get the "pure stuff" so I can make a recipie. I hear "Aquafortis" sold from Track of the Wolf and other places is nitric acid but......it must have other stuff in it right? Not a pure nitric acid?
Thanks for the help Pards.

Scott Semmel

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Re: finding some chemicals for rust bluing.
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2010, 08:04:01 PM »
Unless the current makers of aquafortis changed the original Whakun Bay formula it is an aqua regis formula , that is a mix of hydrochloric and nitric reacted with iron. There was a very informative discussion on rust bluing not too long ago, you might want to look at past threads.

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: finding some chemicals for rust bluing.
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2010, 11:46:44 PM »
They have the acids.... you may have to talk to them about the powder.........
The Science Company:  http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Chemicals-C665.aspx

The Science Company®
95 Lincoln St.
Denver, CO 80203

800-372-6726
303-777-3777 Int
303-777-3331 Fax
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Offline Rolf

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Re: finding some chemicals for rust bluing.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 12:21:39 AM »
Here is a link to some experiments I did with rust bluing:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=9755.msg92094#msg92094
This is a link to pictures of the pistol I rust blued using home made ferric chloride rusting solution. Muric acid was bought at a building supply store. Rubbing alcohol from the drugstore.(alcohol lowers the surface tension and gives a more even rusting). I use degrease steel wool for iron. Pleased with the results.
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=9799.msg92444#msg92444

Best regards
Rolfkt
« Last Edit: June 29, 2010, 12:28:53 AM by Rolfkt »

rifle

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Re: finding some chemicals for rust bluing.
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 05:25:07 PM »
Thank you very much Hombres.  ;D
I saw some where it was inferred hydrocloric acid and muratic acid  are the same. I think it said boric muratic acid?
I did see a discussion on rust bluing and it was informative.
This forum has Pards that have some good info.
I'm looking to try to make a formula for rust bluing that shows "blue" in the color. Blue/black.  Whether it be Charcoal blue or rust blue or even hot caustic salts bluing. I don't want the nitre blue. I want more of a finish that lasts longer than nitre blue. The Nitre Blue Brownells sells in the form of salts. Melt the salts and at the right temp immerse the parts to get a "blue" color on the parts. That kind of Nitre Blue.
Anyway is there anything in the Aquafortis besides hydrocloric and nitric acids and iron? Anyone know?
I think the first time I browned anything it was with Wakon Bay Browning solution. I made a lock plate and hammer look like it was an antique. Worked good for that. I went to Laurel Mountain Browning Degreaser for barrels in the end results after trying some things.
I am a(or was since I'm getting out of it now since I'm retired and don't want my hobby to turn into another job) Gunsmith for Cap&Ball Revolvers. I've restored some of the worst replicas imaginable. I'm heading into doing revolvers with what I figure is the "authentic" finish. Casehardening and bluing. Originally I've found the bluing was done by putting the parts in red hot coals and then removing periodically and wiping with rags with lime or fish oil. That can make a black or grey black finish but.....I want some blue in the color. I may have to go to rust blue or some other like charcoal bluing without the lime or fish oil.
I've tried the "Belgian Blue" Brownells sells and it works real well and relatively fast and is durable but.....the alloy of the steel is an important consideration with any of these bluings and cap&baller revolver cylinders respond real well to the Belgian Blue but....the barrels turn a really cool looking plum brown. Not like Birchwood Casey stuff. I mean a real plum brown like a real plum. That color mimicks the color of some well cared for antique guns I've seen. I guess where the browning or bluing has turned that color from years of oxidation and oil.
Anyway....I've always browned my rifle barrels and am happy with Laurel Mountain Brown Degreaser. Now I'd like a rifle barrel that is the blue/black color.
The blue seems to be illusive even though I've seen it done on "black guns" like AK47's and such.  Rust blue that is a true "blue". Must be the steel I'd say. I've seen actual blue rust blued S&W pistols on the net too. Not the heat and carbonia blue but actual rust bluing. Can't get the secrete though to getting the blue color. I'd like to get together a Hawken rifle with a blue/black barrel. Why? Just do.

I saw the pistol barrel mentioned above. It's done well as best as I can see. I'd like to find the tutorial on the wedding bands of silver. Might be a better way than I know of. Always looking for a better way. ha ha ha It's great that an experiment is shared for others to see. Thanks Pard.
Thanks again to all of you that responded to my post.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 06:17:16 PM by rifle »

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: finding some chemicals for rust bluing.
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2010, 12:32:33 AM »
You might try Vann's Blue........ On a steel mounted rifle I am building it is making a really nice Blue Black color on my test areas of 12L14 barrell and unknown steel alloy guards and thimbles
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Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to give it to others. – William Allen White

Learning is not compulsory...........neither is survival! - W. Edwards Deming