Author Topic: Stamp for jaeger barrel (Read 11877 times)

Acer Saccharum · « **on:** September 01, 2008, 06:18:05 AM »

This is a pic of my latest little piece of my jaeger project. I just proofed this on a piece of fine silver. I am going to cut a little pocket on the top flat of the barrel,insert a piece of 24 K gold, and press this image into the gold. The dotted border is about 3/8 diameter.

a more in-depth description of making the stamp is found here:
http://thoscurran.wordpress.com/category/guns/jaeger-rifle-x/

Dave B · « **Reply #1 on:** September 01, 2008, 06:23:32 AM »

Why Tom you old Goat.

I cant believe I beat Cody on that. I really like this stamp youve done. I did some art work for Ron Scott's stamp and he had it sent off to be cut. I think it is the right way to do the Germanic barrels proud. Well done

Dave B · « **Reply #2 on:** September 01, 2008, 08:49:44 AM »

I asume that you are using the same press for the final forming in the cutout made to receive the silver slug. I like this technique, it is very stable. I know that one setup used a hydralic press and it punched the patern into the bore of the barrel. Fortunatly it was a chunk of barrel for test purposes.

How thick is your slug of silver?.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #3 on:** September 01, 2008, 02:31:56 PM »

Dave, it's only .02 thick. The relief is not very high, so not a lot of metal needs to be displaced.

When I am ready to do the barrel itself, I am going to cut a pocket to receive the 24K gold(not silver) disk, and pressing it in place. Same press will work.

The main purpose of the press is to to keep the stamp from jumping around while you hammer the stamp. The hammer is what forms the metals, not the tightening of the nuts. I just tighten the nuts as the press starts to loosen up during tapping. It doesn't generate the pressure that a hydraulic press does.

I also put this picture up for those who want to stamp their barrels, but find after the first hit, the stamp is winging across the shop, lost amid the shavings and cobwebs. Also for those who want to deepen the impression, but have trouble aligning the stamp for the second and third hit.

Brian · « **Reply #4 on:** September 01, 2008, 05:01:14 PM »

Excellent Tom! Going to be very cool indeed.

rich pierce · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2008, 05:21:44 PM »

Great tutorial too.

ironwolf · « **Reply #6 on:** September 01, 2008, 05:24:01 PM »

Great job on the stamp Tom. The 'flatness' of the background is amazing.

KW

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #7 on:** September 02, 2008, 03:26:05 PM »

Dave, next I am going to make a test run in a piece of barrel blank. Since this stamp is circular, I can cut it with an endmill or a boring head. Cheating? If Herr Heinz Immel had one, he would have used it!

Seriously, if the stamp were odd shaped, like a shield, for example, I'd cut a pocket first by milling, then finishing up with chisels and gravers. Once the pocket is prepared, THEN the gold is stamped in place. The deep pockets I have seen in the Steinschloss book look cut to me, rather than pressed or pounded. As Dave mentioned above, the bore could be badly distorted with enough pressure.

Ironwolf, I used a surface grinder to flatten the face of the stamp. Initially, I was thinking of making a background of parallel lines, but then I'd have to line the stamp up PERFECTLY with the barrel, or it would look strange.

Ken G · « **Reply #8 on:** September 02, 2008, 03:30:16 PM »

Acer,
That's pretty impressive! Thanks for posting the pics.

Long John · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2008, 04:45:41 PM »

Acer,

Younever cease to amaze me!

Best Regards,

John Cholin

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2008, 12:53:44 AM »

That's the image all stamped into a scrap of barrel. The pocket is .045 deep, and the silver starts at .02 sheet. It must flow into the raised part of the stamp, and get thinner in the low sections?

It works, it works, yippeee, it works, hippity hop around the shop.

Thanks for all your kind works.

Tom

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #11 on:** September 03, 2008, 12:55:07 AM »

I wouldna done this without you, Huddleston. Thank you very much.

rich pierce · « **Reply #12 on:** September 03, 2008, 01:31:34 AM »

Wow you took it close to the edge there. I'd have been nervous about deforming the steel at the corner of the octagon. I'm guessing the jaeger barrel has wider flats. Looks great. You ought to be able to market old goat coins to this gang pretty easily, too.

Roy S. · « **Reply #13 on:** September 03, 2008, 04:24:42 AM »

Thats just too cool! Good stuff...

Ron Scott · « **Reply #14 on:** September 03, 2008, 06:24:38 PM »

Hello Tom,

Some great ideas! I have a stamp that I have been frustrated in getting to align and not bounce. Your jig looks like something that might solve it. Are there any observations about clamping the jig to the octagon barrel? Also did you undercut your mortise edges?

Ron

Daryl · « **Reply #15 on:** September 03, 2008, 06:29:55 PM »

The bar is raised again, Tom - thanks for posting your progress and details on this. Wonderful work!

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #16 on:** September 03, 2008, 08:17:31 PM »

Ron, the pocket is undercut around the perimeter. With a graver, I raised little hooks, or barbs, all over the floor of the pocket, kinda like a burdock, if ya know what I mean.

If you wanted to use a traditional long shanked punch, the top slider of the press could have a hole bored in it with some set screws on the side to really hold your punch tightly.

I don't have a lot of experience with this press yet...for example, on an extremely swamped barrel. Will the whole works try to slide downhill while punching? maybe shim the underside, or sprinkle a little rosin to help hold things in place 'til the punch gets seated.

When punching a stamp into steel, the metal gets displaced. If you are stamping letters or figures, the metal of the barrel gets pushed aside by the stamp. You need to file this flush after you stamp. If you hit hard enough, the bore will be crushed to some degree. I don't worry much about the cartouche silver stamping, because so little force is required to make a good impression.

davec2 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 04, 2008, 11:49:17 PM »

Acer,

A while back I posted a few pictures of the makers mark I had made by EDM (in response to your post about heat treating). I first used the stamp with a hammer - works OK, but, as you note, you need to be very careful not to hose up the work with a bounce or miss alignment. I then made a fixture somewhat like yours to hold the stamp in position while I hit it, but my fixture didn't have the bolt arrangement (yours is a much better design). At any rate, I eventually made a special hydraulic press just for this type of work. The press has a pressure gage on the hydraulic cylinder so that test specimens can be run at various pressures to make a perfect stamp every time without damage to the surrounding material or the bore (if done on a barrel). I also press (coin) silver, brass, and copper marks with it to inlet into horns or other items that I make.

The press is just welded up out of scrap 2 inch square steel tubing and is very simple to build. I also use it to form breech plug tangs and press home made black powder "pucks" prior to corning. I will post a picture of the press when I get a chance.

Great job on the stamp !!

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #18 on:** September 05, 2008, 12:20:33 AM »

Holy Cow, pucks! Corny, I know, but you really make your own BP?

Your press sounds pretty handy. Maybe we should a 'press post' in the "shop made tools" section.

Tom

davec2 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 05, 2008, 01:59:45 AM »

Tom,

Good idea. I will get some pictures together of the hydraulic press. As far as making black powder, yes, I make quite a bit of it. When they get the archives back up and running from the old board, I had posted quite a bit about both my daughters making black powder from different types of charcoal they made from different woods as grade school science projects. I have not seen any posts from Dutch Bill on this new board, but he is a wealth of info about making powder (and quite a few other topics). We had some very interesting and lengthy discussions about the subject.

Dave C

davec2 · « **Reply #20 on:** September 06, 2008, 06:14:03 AM »

Tom,

Found a photo of one of the makers marks I pressed in copper and then inlet into a horn I made. The mark is a little over a 1/4" tall.

I still have to get the picture of the press posted - ran out of time today.

DC

free website to upload photos

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #21 on:** September 06, 2008, 06:27:07 AM »

This kind of magic is most humbifying. Wonderful stuff Tom.

davec2 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 14, 2008, 05:47:07 AM »

Acer,

I finally took the pictures of my hydraulic press and posted them in the "Shop Made Tools" section.

Z. Buck · « **Reply #23 on:** September 14, 2008, 05:30:41 PM »

how exactly is graphite used to make an impression in metal? is it heated and burned in? i know that when i worked in a glass shop we just carved the graphite and used that directly in the hot glass to make stamps. any thing you all can teach me on this would be greatly apreciated

davec2 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 14, 2008, 08:48:03 PM »

Zack,

The graphite tool is used in a process called EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining). If you have ever inadvertently touched a wrench or screw driver across the terminals of a car battery, the result is a bright flash and a piece of the wrench is missing. EDM is the same process but in a very controlled manner. The work piece (the stamp in this case) and the tool (the graphite) are placed in a machine and submerged in an electrolyte (i.e. kerosene or, now, some water based, non flammable fluids). When the tool is cutting, it sounds like bacon frying. Millions of very small, controlled sparks are "eroding" the work piece. In fact, the process was often referred to as spark erosion machining. At any rate, it will cut any shape you can make the tool in any metallic work piece, hard or soft. The tool normally never even touches the work piece, so there is no tool force or tool pressure involved either. A very similar and also very useful process is called ECM (Electro Chemical Machining) If you look both processes up on line there are several sites that will explain them in detail and show excellent pictures of the machines and what can be done with them that simply cannot be done by any other means. I use these two processes extensively in making rocket propulsion hardware.

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Author Topic: Stamp for jaeger barrel (Read 11877 times)

ironwolf

Roy S.

Daryl