Bucks County Lid Release

[flehto]

In an attempt to be more HC/PC  w/ my BC LRs, I'd like to use the BC lid release.  All I know is that a rod is under the toeplate but don't know what is req'd after that.  Any info or photos would be greatly appreciated....Fred

[rdillon]

Fred, pm me your email address and I will send you some pictures.

Rich

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Fred, I have pictures of several Bucks Co. rifles, by Antes and Verner, and each is different.  All are side opening boxes, but the Antes rifle opens with a button on the butt plate return, one Verner opens just like a JP Beck with the release knob on the butt plate at the top of the lid, and the A. Verner Gunsmith rifle has it's release button as the tip of the toe plate.  So fill your boots...you can't do it wrong.!

[Lucky R A]

       Fred, In the classic Bucks Co. style 1800-1820+ the release was almost always under the toeplate.  Antes was a forerunner, but before the classic Bucks Co. style was fully developed.   In the classic style there is a pushrod that runs from under the little bulb on the end of the toeplate.   It then runs right along the back of the patchbox cavity and contacts with the catch spring.  There is usually a small staple that holds the push rod into place.  John Shuler even inletted a small piece of brass into the back of the patchbox cavity to act as a bearing for the pushrod to wear against.   I sent some drawings and photos to Rich when he was building a Bucks Co. rifle which I see he is sharing with you.   You have done some very nice work on your last Bucks Co. gun and it would be nice if you take the time to really get the release correct.   If you get stuck, PM me and I will send you some photos etc. that will make it clear how it is done.   I will be out at a rendy over the 4th. but will get it to you when I get back if you need it.   

Good luck,
Ron

[FG1]

Hey fellers how bout posting them ? Id like to see how they are made .

[b bogart]

Yea me too. A picture or two and a drawing might just save me from embarassing myself on the next gun. Please!

[flehto]

I want to thank all who offered help  and will now be able to use the BC lid release thanks to Rich Dillon and indirectly to Lucky RA.  Possibly a release in the BP heel was made on a BC LR sometime so that thought  somewhat justifies my use of it?  Again, a big "thank you" to all involved. ....Fred

[bluenoser]

Hey fellers how bout posting them ? Id like to see how they are made .
[/quote

Ditto

[smylee grouch]

I second Bluenoser, some of the rest of us need pictures for inspiration and it sounds like you guys have a good understanding of the topic.  Thanks in advance for any help.        Gary

[FG1]

Dang !! Wish I new the secret handshake !

[FG1]

Well , I reckon rest of us that would like to learn are on a different level ? Must be frecklefaced stepkids or sumptin ?

[b bogart]

I'm with you Eric. But then again I am not as scholarly as some on this topic. I'm only going by what I see! He made wonderful rifles, but I don't see Bucks shillouette, nor furniture. I stand ready to be corrected! He did have a side opener or two right? Gotta keep the thread topical. 

[rdillon]

Well , I reckon rest of us that would like to learn are on a different level ? Must be frecklefaced stepkids or sumptin ?

Well Sir, sarcasm will get you nowhere. Appraently I am not allowed to be away from the computer over the holiday weekend and my birthday.  I do have better things to spend most of my time with including building guns

[rdillon]

To those who would like to know and see one I will post a few pictures.  I can't post and make public most that I have because I do not have permission from the folks I got them from. 

I hope you all can at least understand that.

These pictures belong to me so I will post these.  IF you have any questions please pm me or call on the phone.  My phone number is on my website and the CLA site.

I will also be at Dixon's with one I built for a customer.









Thanks.

[FG1]

Thank you ! That is a lot simpiler than the one I made .

[bluenoser]

Rich,

Thanks for the photos.  Apparently, belated birthday wishes are in order too.  Hope you had a great day.

Laurie

[b bogart]

Thank you Rich for taking the time to post these pictures. As a complete novice at rifle building and a great admirer of Bucks County rifles, I appreciate the guidance they provide so that I can at least attempt to make several accurate renditions of said rifles. I have 4 sets of hardware for upcoming projects and want to make mistakes due to lack of skill and not of ignorance!

[rdillon]

Thank you Rich for taking the time to post these pictures. As a complete novice at rifle building and a great admirer of Bucks County rifles, I appreciate the guidance they provide so that I can at least attempt to make several accurate renditions of said rifles. I have 4 sets of hardware for upcoming projects and want to make mistakes due to lack of skill and not of ignorance!

Your quite welcome Bruce!

bluenoser, thank-you

[b bogart]

For those that might know for sure, that push rod seems quite small in diameter, smaller than I would have imagined. And what a clean and smoothed patchbox interior! And those look like nails attaching the lid hinge to the box. Are these common traits??? Thanks to you knowledgable ones!
Also is the hinge soldered to the lid? Or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

[J.D.]

Very interesting photos with a  very simple and effective PB release. Thank you for posting those very informative photos.

I just realized I didn't see a a spring that pops the lid open. Is that a normal feature for Bucks County pieces?

Thanks and God bless

[rdillon]

J.D. you are correct!  No lid release springs are need on a Bucks side opener.  The lid is "sprung" when installed so no spring is needed to open it, pretty cool isn't it  

I do how ever make and install a small spring so the lid opens better.  To each there own.

[rich pierce]

I don't understand why William Antes is considered a Bucks County gunmaker.  He never lived or worked in Bucks.  
His style is quite different than the classic Bucks gun.  

I hypothesize that Antes somehow was a founder or primary influence of the Bucks County style.  One not need live in Bucks county to do that. If gunsmiths who "established" the style, incorporated features found in his work which is earlier, it is reasonable to suppose a strong influence.  He was a prominent man in Philadelphia during the War. But let's go to the gun, RCA 53.  Note the  curve to the underside of the buttstock. Not Lancaster (straight), not Lehigh (double curve).  Above all, note the long wrist.  The comb begins completely behind the guard reverse curve (forgot my vocab this morning).  Same as RCA 61-65.  This elongated wrist style almost never occurs on Lancaster rifles.  Curved underside, elongated wrist, are classic Bucks county architectural features.  Note the guard.  Classic Bucks County.  Not Lancaster.  Not Lehigh.  Note the use of the thumbnail motif.  Often found on Bucks County guns.  To me, these look like Bucks county roots.  What other earlier guns display so many features found on classic Bucks county guns?

Note I do not agree 100% with Shumway's classifications in RCA volume 1, regarding Lehigh versus Bucks County, etc., and consider RCA 58 a Bucks county style gun.  For that matter, makers of rifles such as RCA 52 could have influenced the development of the Bucks county style.  In a "roots" gun, we are not going to see all the full blown features.  In summary, I would not classify Antes as a Bucks county builder, but an earlier maker who invented and established some of the motifs found later on Bucks county guns.

[b bogart]

Right on Rich! I'm with you on that supposition.