Author Topic: Soldering Underrib  (Read 8419 times)

runnin lead

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Soldering Underrib
« on: July 04, 2010, 04:17:10 AM »
Spent over an hour & 1/4 pound of solder , got about 1/5 of rib tinned.
What is the trick?
last one that I did was about as bad , barrel seemed to tin ok tho on that one.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2010, 05:45:38 AM »
I have found the best results in soldering steel with acid flux. Rosin flux just seems to make the solder melt and bead up, but does not stick to the steel.

Rosin flux trick:
Take steel wool, and work some flux into it. Once the rib is hot enough to melt solder, scrub the area with the steel wool. This will coat the rib perfectly with a coat of solder. Heat the barrel, and coat same way. Apply flux to both surfaces, then screw the two together, and fill the joint with solder once the melt temp is reached. Stop filling once the solder fills the joint.

The worst thing for solder is TOO MUCH HEAT. Once the solder melts, it's as hot as it ever needs to be. Make sure the joint has enough flux. Everything can be wiped clean with a damp cloth while the work is still hot.

T
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runnin lead

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2010, 06:35:38 AM »
Guess the rib still wasn't clean enough , went over it with  0000 steel wool 1st time , this time used sand paper ,  guess the steel wool was not agressive enough , It took about 15 min to tin the rib this time, barrel was cake.

g.pennell

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2010, 03:15:55 PM »
Also, unless you de-greased your steel wool, it probably left a coat of oil on your parts.  Sometimes even fingerprints will keep solder from sticking.  I've had pretty good luck cleaning surfaces with fine sandpaper, then wiping the parts off with acetone before soldering.

Greg

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2010, 04:49:00 PM »
To clarify the above directions:

Use the steel wool to coat the part with solder. When the part is hot enough to melt the solder, the steel wool is used like a mop to spread the solder around. It scrubs, fluxes and solders at the same time.

And yes, your parts have to be very clean and bright to begin with. But as soon as the part starts to heat, it also starts to oxidize, preventing the flow of solder. The steel wool, loaded with flux and solder, makes the flow of solder so easy. You are suddenly a professional.

You don't need to degrease the wool for soldering.

This method works with rosin flux, which is best for under ribs. Rosin is inert, no rusting. No hidden pockets of acid to weep out of a seam later. But the rosin flux does not clean the steel like acid flux. Therefore, you need to have steel wool or some other vehicle to spread the solder.

Note that too much heat is worse than not enough. When the metal gets too hot, it cooks the flux and oxidizes the steel to the point where solder won't flow. Solution for over heated parts: Let things cool down and scrub everything up bright again.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 04:53:48 PM by Acer Saccharum »
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2010, 04:54:30 PM »
blah, blah, blah.

Happy Fourth, everyone.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

northmn

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2010, 04:56:43 PM »
I cannot add much to Acer's recommendations, but I have found that plain old 50-50 or 60-40 solder works fine for ribs, sights and underlugs.  Seems to be a little less fussy than some of the modern lead free solders and tends to suck in on some projects.  Maybe just more experienced with it.  They make a NO-Korode flux that has an acid base but is not supposed to be as aggressive as some fluxes.

DP

Offline Simon

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2010, 06:52:06 PM »
Does sta-brite work well for this or does lead/tin work better?

Thanks Mel
Mel Kidd

Dave Dolliver

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2010, 07:25:22 PM »
When soldering rib to barrel: 
I use oxy-acetyline torch.
Tin both pieces.
I prefer a liquid acid flux.
Clamp the two together.
Heat the BARREL and let the heat flow from the barrel to the rib until the solder melts

If you play the heat on the rib, it burns off the flux before the barrel gets hot enough to melt its solder  and any joint is a poor one.  A "cold" solder joint.
 
I solder very few ribs to barrels since the assy would no longer fit thru the headstock of my lathe should I need to work on the muzzle crown or cone the barrel.

Dave D.

caliber45

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2010, 08:16:01 PM »
Runnin' and you other gents -- I think you're going about soldering underribs the hard way. Call up the Brownell's website (or phone, if that's your preference) and order a container of Swif. It's solder ground into a paste. Buy a pound, not the little squishy tube -- it lasts forever and you'll use it all eventually.) You simply clean the bottom of the barrel and the bottom of the underrib with solvent (I use acetone) to remove any grease, spread a thin layer of Swif on the barrel, clamp the underrib into place, and use your propane torch until until the solder melts (you can see tiny beads of molten solder and some black stuff squish out between the two parts), use your solder brush to sweep away any excess, and you're done. I solder underribs and thimbles (half-stock) all in the same operation. I forget the tensile strength of Swif, but it's very strong. Never had one come loose. All this $#@* about "tinning," etc., etc., is just a waste of time. Unless, of course, you're one of those traditionalists who like to do things the "old way" (read: "hard way"). Good luck~! -- paulallen, tucson az

Offline bluenoser

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2010, 09:45:40 PM »
To clarify the above directions: ........


Tom

Thanks for the excellent explanation.

Laurie

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2010, 05:02:53 AM »
Are you guys using a solid under rib?  I just did one yesterday that was made of sheet and it was a pain in the ... at first.   I had trouble tinning the edge so I just clamped it in place, then when everything was hot, ran a bead of solder along the edge where it meets the barrel.  It flowed very nicely and didn't take long.  Had to do some clean up, but not terrible.  I'm thinking the solid under ribs would be easier...

    Ed
Ed Wenger

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2010, 06:28:20 PM »
The sheet ribs are a lot lighter. Usually the muzzle end is filled with solder.

Tinning both parts makes the job go a lot cleaner. On a hollow rib, you don't want acid sitting inside.

Once tinned, you clean up any acid flux so you don't get rusting later on. When ready to solder the parts together, flux with rosin flux. Then you get no corrosion.


I will try the Brownell's Swif at some point, when I run out of the pile of junk that I have on hand.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2010, 04:46:27 AM »
Thanks Tom...  I was thinking the same thing about an acid flux on the inside, so I used a rosin flux.  Came out pretty well...

             Ed
Ed Wenger

Offline Simon

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2010, 04:41:10 AM »

Caliber 45 (Paul Allen) thanks for the tip on SWIF.  Got some from Brownell and it was the easiest solder job I ever did( and the quickest).
 Time and use will tell about the strength, but it feels very solid.

Thanks again,    Mel
Mel Kidd

keweenaw

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Re: Soldering Underrib
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2010, 07:44:59 PM »
You guys seem to have something against the use of a soldering iron.  Just takes a few minutes to tin the barrel or hollow rib using a paint on liquid rosin flux and a good, big hot soldering iron to run on the solder.  The torch only goes on the work piece when I'm soldering the tinned rib to the tinned barrel.  Doesn't everyone had a gasoline blow torch and the soldering iron to go with it?

Tom