southern rifle question

[billd]

For those who build mountain rifles, please.  When you file and sand a iron buttplate and trigger guard, how far do you go?  It's going to be browned and I know the originals were hammer shaped by a blacksmith. After removing the parting lines from the casting, do you leave some of the file marks and divits or do you sand completely smooth?

Thanks,
Bill

[Dennis Glazener]

Bill,
I file then sand with 320 grit. Then I brown or antique them.
Dennis

[G-Man]

Even though the iron hardware was forged, most of the original iron mounted guns I've seen had the hammer marks filed out of them, and sometimes some simple file cut lines or designs added. You could file them carefully and be done, or sand further like Dennis describes.  A brown finish takes to a slightly rough surface well, so you don't need to polish.  But I wouldn't leave pits or uneven surfaces.  That being said, there are a few rougher examples out there - but most that I have seen were finished pretty smooth.

Guy

[Steve Bookout]

By and large, the Southern furniture was finished extremely well.  You don't often see hammer marks on those guards.  Most of the hammer marked furniture you see now days is there at the customer's request because they are seeking the "home made" look and not samo-samo as what you buy from the parts houses.  Cheers,  Bookie

[P.Bigham]

  I have a Trigger gaurd and Butt plate off a original late southern Iron mounted Rifle This one is  much thinner than the castings that I have seen. The butt plate is about 1/16 in thickness of material.The Trigger Gaurd is 1/8 at Its Thickest in the grip rail. The inside of the Trigger gaurd Retains the Forging Hammer marks ,on the outside it is filed smooth. I would try to Replicate these features on the Castings Taking the edges down to appear as thin stock. Maybe putting some hammer marks on the Inside of the Trigger Gaurd. You could add Rivets and Brazing for some more affect where the Iron stock is put together. hope this may help. PB

[Ken G]

I still remember my first impression at a KRA show when all of the sudden there were dozens of originals in front of me.  Where's the hammer marks?   
Go to my website and look at the Southern original #2.  There is a real good close up picture of the trigger guard.  Say a big thanks! to our member TimM for allowing me to post the pictures for study also. 

Ken

[hyltoto]

Did they have sand paper in them thar hills? If not, how'd they do it?

[G-Man]

I believe on the iron mounted mountain rifles it was all done with files.  I may be wrong though.

Guy

[Ken G]

I agree.  I think they were good with files. 
Ken

[RobertS]

I noticed on Saturday's the Woodwright's Shop, with Roy Underhill, something that I had not noticed before.  The show was filmed at Williamsburg, and the smith was showing the technique of making hinges, but I noticed that the face of the anvil and the face of the hammer appeared to be almost polished smooth, and the finished peice appeared to be almost free of hammer marks before he began to finish it with the file.  I may be mistaken, but I have to wonder if the forged stuff actually came off the anvil smoother than most of what is produced today.  I have that recorded on the box, I'll have to look at it again.   

[flintriflesmith]

Very smooth forgings that require minimal file work are a matter of considerable pride to the skilled blacksmiths here in Williamsburg. But not all gunsmiths, myself included, did enough forging to develop that high level of forge work. When I was handforging lock parts, I tended to get it close and then just grab the file.

I believe a smith making a lot of iron mounted rifles would have gotten very good with the hammer.

Gary

[David Rase]

But not all gunsmiths, myself included, did enough forging to develop that high level of forge work. When I was handforging lock parts, I tended to get it close and then just grab the file.
Gary

Amen!  I am a much better filer then a blacksmith.  You are correct Gary, we don't do it enough.  Case in point, last night I forged out the pieces for my Tulle trigger guard.  With my 12" scale and drawings close a hand I set out to forge the 3 pieces of steel as close as possible.  I even took the time to hammer the bevels around the edges of the front and rear extensions.  Once I brought the pieces back into my shop I was amazed at how much filing I still have to perform, and I really took my time at the forge.
DMR