Bedford Patch Pattern

[Williamsporter]

Hello, I am very new to the group and have spent several days reading old posts and learning quite a bit.
Am having a rough time of it though in finding a good pattern for a Bedford gun patch box.  In the Book "The Bedford County Rifle and Its Makers" there is a pattern that is consistant on most of the guns in that book.  Funny that one of them has the forward piece reversed from all of the others.
I was also looking at another Bedford at Dixon's this weekend and the piercings were very squared.  The current commercial blanks for Bedfords don't seem to do the school justice and I thought I looked at most of the suppliers.
I came across an original gun that is very short and of a small caliber, that is similar to a Bedford and I am going to really "Pimp" it out with piercings and such but do want to keep to the period.
So my question is:  Does anyone make a Bedford Patch Box like the book?  Or can any of you all that have pictures of some, post them?  I will make due with what I can find and try my best.

Cheers,
Michael

[Collector]

Welcome to the ALR Board.  I would implore you NOT to do anything to an original/antique longrifle to make it anything more than it is. 

The piece that you are looking at and/or own sounds like it either was cut down during the period of its use or was built as a 'boys' rifle.  In either case, you don't want to do anything to it, more than a light cleaning of the exposed surfaces and cleaning and oiling the bore. 

You can learn more about what to do to properly 'clean' your find and possibly researching its regional/school origins and maker, by using the search feature or posting photographs for the ALR Board members review.   

Good luck!   

[rich pierce]

I've never used commercial precut patchboxes before. I suppose some of them are fine enough but I've seen plenty with gnarly hinges with gaps etc.  Making the parts is much of the fun in gunbuilding; otherwise it seems more like assembly to me.  I'd suggest taking on making a partchbox from sheet brass.  You'll learn a lot and develop the same skills original gunsmiths all had.

I do assume you're using that original as a model or inspiration, not to modify.

[Williamsporter]

To G Hansen,
Sorry for a bit of confusion, I am NOT repairing but trying to reproduce the Bedford.  Thanks for the advice though.
Yes, unless, I get an offer or pointing to a pre-cut box, I will most likely cut out my own.  It would be nice though to have some good closeup shots of several for me to copy from.
Will see if someone has some in the next few days.

For this project, I wanted a fun good looking gun and am going with a .36 and a short barrel and the original was either an old mans rifle or a kids.  I am in the process of building 4 Beck guns for the three Grandsons and Son and  they will be simple.  Since I was buying parts, thought I'd put together this one for myself.  And since the kids are still too small to handle a .50 for some years yet, once they are a bit bigger can shoot my Bedford. 

No way do I have the talent to present a gun at a show but feel I make a nice looking working gun and have shot 3 deer with my .50 Armstrong copy.  Maybe after I get through these next guns and how many years it takes and am still alive, might feel I can boast about them somewhat.


Regards,
Michael

[T*O*F]

[Nate McKenzie]

A good investment for you would be to purchase the book The Bedford County Rifle by Calvin Hetrick. Many pictures and you will see quite a variation in patchboxes. If you would like to see it in person before buying it [mine isn't for sail]  contact me. I live a little less than an hour away from Williamsport.

[Williamsporter]

Nate,
Thanks for the offer but I do have the book.  That's why I was looking for a similiar patchbox like on page 24.  You see that style throughout the book and I like it.  I think that is the gun I will copy.  (I'm not that much of an original thinker.:-)
Still, it would be great to get together sometime and talk shop.
Thanks,
Michael

[T*O*F]

I have the patchbox you are looking for, some older Bedford locks, toeplate to match patchbox, and sideplate.  Will email you directly with pictures.

[T*O*F]

Return email sent

[jpldude]

Greetings Michael, here are some pictures of a shortened Bedford that came through Larry Gardner's shop while I was visiting.








Rgds,

John

[Williamsporter]

Yep, that is exactly if not close to the one I saw last Saturday at Dixon's.  Do you think that this is a later style?  I am feeling more partial to the ones that have 6 piercings like on pages 10, 24, 29, 36 and 37 of Hetricks book.  There is also a flintlock with some of those rifles.  Plus, I am leaning towards using German Silver.
I will try to stay pure in style but am going for my taste as well. 
Thanks

[Dave B]

This is a rifle from Somerset CO. The patch box is classic Bedford design.

[Ryan McNabb]

1).  Purchase the buttplate that you are going to use. 
2).  Take a good photograph of the rifle with the box you want to use to a copy shop or your office and, using the enlarge function on the copier, keep playing around with the copies of the photograph until you get a life size photocopy of the picture that matches the actual buttplate as closely as possible.
3).  Bingo - you now have a full-size patchbox pattern.  (This also works for stock pattern.)

[Herb]

Here are some rifles I built.  The Bedford is a copy of three of Thomas Oldham's rifles blended into one.  Sterling silver inlays.  I think I hand sawed this box from a blank.  The pattern was a photo enlargement of one of Oldhams' boxes.  Another good reference is "Gunsmiths of Bedford, Somerset and Fulton Counties" by Vaughn Whisker, Sr. and James Biser Whisker.  Perhaps you could get this on an interlibrary loan.

[Herb]

Muzzleloader Builders Supply in Aberdeen, Idaho has a Bedford patch box kit. the Q finial turned up. (Oldham's turns down).  Toll free order line 877-397-3008.  They have a web site, too.

[Joe Stein]

If the gun you saw at Dixon's was the one on the wall in the back near the lock parts, that gun is a Daniel Border, the same smith that made the gun John L showed above. According to Hetrick Border lived from 1826-1891.  There is some evidence that he may be the Border of Amos & Border Co.  If so, then he probably also collaborated on the making of the gun shown on page 29 of Hetrick.                   

Another good reference, with many pictures is Gunsmiths of Bedford, Fulton, Huntingdon & Somerset Counties by James B. Whisker and Larry W. Yantz.  It, too should be available by inter-library loan.  If you want to buy it, it's available from Track of the Wolf. Or you can do like I did and buy a copy signed by Larry Yantz from the Old Fort Bedford Museum in Bedford.  Larry Yantz is the Curator there.  If you go, I'm told he would be happy to talk Bedford rifles with you. (He was out picking up a clock the day I was there.) The Daniel Border gun from Dixon's is pictured there on page 54.

James Biser is on this forum, using the name "Scooter".

The advice to copy and expand pictures is good.  It's a very easy way to get the proportions you need.

Good luck with your build.