Wedding Band ?

[loco219]

Can anyone here tell much about this gun from this pic ? Its the one I am looking at for purchase. This is the "wedding band".

[loco219]

Heres the tang/breech

[Blacksmoke]

loco 219:  The transition area between the octagon and round section of the barrel sometimes has a few lateral rings and other molding filed into it - this is sometimes referred to as a "wedding band".   As to the rest of the gun- that we would have to see before commenting on.      Hugh Toenjes

[LynnC]

It may just be the photo but that sure looks like a percussion cap on the nipple - Have you checked that its unloaded?

I'd also like to see the whole thing - more pics please

[loco219]

Its the same gun I was questioning in another post concerning its origin. It is definitely "just out of the attic".  Does the tang give any clues as to the age of the gun? Does this type of tang fall into a "late flint" time period? Other parts on the gun are from that period for sure, and I know its been converted to percussion.  I don"t have any more pics, but my heart keeps saying buy it, I just want to be clearer on what it is.

[mr. no gold]

Tangs can bounce all over the place on shape and finials. Not necessarily an age indiator. Does this gun have a one bolt, or two bolt, lockplate? Photo shows only one bolt, but plate could be drilled for a front hole, too. As to the lockplate; it appears to be a late type used a lot in Ohio guns; that is, it is long, and overlays the wood on the front rather than being recessed into the mortise. Some full photos would really help out.
The photos do hint that you have found a very nice smooth gun, (or fowler) and if price is affordable, suggest that you grab it.
Dick

[loco219]

The percussion lock on the gun is stamped with the name of a Pittsburgh hardware store. I found it in Kauffmans book right away ( Ha Ha, the beginning of a longrifle nut !) The lock dates to 1850-1860 era according to that info.Its obvious, even to a novice like me, that the gun is older. The person who owns it now has been its caretaker for something like 60 years, and got it passed to him through family. He is in a position where he wants it to go to someone who will preserve and appreciate it, but he has no one, enter me. He knows I like guns, so its offered to me. It has not been shot, cleaned, or fiddled with in something like 100yrs. The price is not bad, but still not low, thus I am trying to nail down what it is before taking the plunge. 

[JTR]

Sounds interesting, and there is any number of guys here that will give you good information on the gun,,, but we need more than just a pic of a rear sight and a wedding band on a barrel, and a tang area to go on.
Right now I'd guess the value someplace between $300 and $3000.

Does it have a patch box?
Does it have any carving?
Any inlays?
How long is the barrel?

John

[loco219]

More pics will not be available until Thursday, the gun is not near my home. It has no patchbox and no carving. The lockplate is two screw, and the sideplate is the typical brass semi arch of later Lancaster. In fact, I can see the exact sideplate on several guns in many longrifle books. It has brass buttplate and toe plate, brass nosecap, barrel is 44 inches. The lines of the stock are Lehigh Valley, and the wood is beautiful curly maple. The triggerguard is also a match for many Lehigh rifles in the reference books.  As I stated before, the gun makes little sense to me. A unadorned gun, but with an oct. to round barrel that must have been a greater expense, Lehigh lines, above average wood, etc.  I am starting to think it may be an older gun restocked by a Lehigh artisan. More pics when I get them, Until them any more thoughts?

[G-Man]

One thing I can't determine from the posts - is it a smoothbore or rifled?  I would assume from the barrel it is a smoothbore.  Octagon to round  barrels or all round barrels were the norm on fowlers and were imported in large numbers, so in the case of a fowler an octagon to round configuration has more to do with the type of shooting intended for it, than being an indication of  a higher-end gun when it was built.  That is, I would think a handmade full octagon rifled barrel would have been more costly than a common octagon to round imported smoothbore barrel, but I am no expert by any means.  

If your barrel is rifled, and from the flint era, it would be atypical.  Rifled ocatgon to round barrels on American flint-era guns are rare.  Most are smooth, at least in their present configuration.  I can't think of one that I have actually seen, but  there might be one or two in the books, including those with "straight" rifling.  Just not the norm - most of these barrels were typically thin walled and not rifled. (Again, speaking here of Golden Age and earlier flint era longrifles, not late percussion target rifles).

Guy

[loco219]

Here is a good buttstock profile photo of the gun. It really does not show the figure of the wood, but may help in identifying the "school" of manufacture.

[LynnC]

And it still appears to have a percussion cap on the nipple......................

[loco219]

Ha, maybe so maybe not but its not in my possession (yet ). Anybody have more to add about the style/architecture? Thats what I really am itching to know!

[loco219]

I am getting some feedback now that this gun may not be as old as I think it is. Also, some theorize it is original percussion, not converted. What are the signs?

[Majorjoel]

I really have to tell you that until this rifle is layed out to us in much more detail, that all anyone can do with this limited showing is guess. The general shape of the buttstock could be out of Dauphin Co. PA. Need to see the trigger guard to confirm this. Without a peek at the sideplate side (opposite the lock) it would be futile to speculate if this piece was ever a flintlock.

[LynnC]

Hi loco - not trying to give you a hard time, just thinking safety first for both you and the owner.  Next time you see it Please pull that percussion cap and then drop the ram rod down bore to the breech plug (hopefully).  The owner may have never checked.  I would not fool with it without checking.  I Have found some Loaded though they didn't have a cap on the nipple ready to go.......OK enough.

I could be a "Kentucky" fowler as written about in "Flintlock Fowlers" by Grinslade.  Really need pictures both sides especially from lock back to butt.  Does it have a cheek piece.  If it does then it may fall in the smooth rifle category.  Is it rifled (check for load first).  Need more info.  Nice gun from what I can see.

[LynnC]

That rifle trigger guard probably puts it in the rifle or smooth rifle category.................Lynn

[loco219]

No offense taken, I truly value this site and the knowledge here. I will know very shortly if I am the new owner of the gun. I have been recently tossed a "curveball" as to the price, now its up to me to buy or walk away. If my offer is accepted you gentlemen will be the first to know, then we can get some better pics and nail down what this thing really is.

[loco219]

After a long song and dance, the gun is mine.  Here is a pic of the the sideplate. I think since the other screw is absent its safe to say it was originally flintlock. It will take a week to ship, so I won't have it in hand, but now have better pics.
 

[loco219]

Heres a full length profile

[loco219]

New pics tonight, where are you guys?

[rich pierce]

I don't think there's enough detail or signature seen so far as to give a good clue as to when or where it was made.  Post-1830; the lock may have once been flint but not necessarily when it was put on this rifle.  No patchbox, cheekpiece, carving, inlays, a nice plain, attic condition rifle.  Good find, but will always be a mystery gun, probably.

[loco219]

Here is opposite profile showing cheekpiece