New patching shoots high!

[Roger Fisher]

I found that .020 teflon patching groups sweet at the longer ranges in my ol Getz barreled Long rifle, so I use that in those matches and my old reliable (and well supplied) ol tyme floral pillow ticking .015 (and spit of course), .454 ball at 50 and under yard matches....Lately I noticed while using the teflon (for the H     of it) at 50 yds both offhand and rest that the ol gal printed a full 2 inches high from point of aim.  She grouped just fine and I 'brought home the bacon' once I found exactly where to hold.   Now boys and girls fess up, have you noticed also that your ol rifle printed higher from point of aim with a tighter than 'normal' patch and ball combo   And of course, how high from point of aim?

[roundball]

I've seen that during load development at the range, where changing patch thickness can move the POI an inch or so, and not necessarily only in the vertical.
Also, varying the amount of lube has caused POI shifts, even sloppy groups.

[hanshi]

I've found a definite change in poi when using .445 ball in place of .440 in my .45.  Same patching and lube in both cases.

[bgf]

I sometimes use a loose combo for woods walking when I don't want to mess with my short starter, and it does in fact shoot low (1.5"? or so), even at 25 yards.  That works out well for shorter range targets.  At 50, it is pretty much useless for targets.  I would also agree with the above, that different loads can also cause lateral as well as vertical displacement.

[Daryl]

Guess I lucked out.  .397" ball (mould casts oversize) and .0215" ticking shoots identically as when using .0225" denim for patching, lube identical. Switching to a .400" ball and .019" stretchy denim shoots same poi, but a tich more accurately- ie; tighter groups.
.32 shoots lower with tighter patch, but shoots a bit tighter - again, .0215" vs. .0225" - only a thou difference, but different material- ticking vs. denim.
.58 shoots the same with .0215" and .0225" patches as long as I'm shooting the .570" ball (double rifle).
.69 doesn't care much, shoots to the sights with all combinations.  For instance, a .684" pure lead ball with .0225" patch shoots to the sigths at 50 yards with 82gr. 2F and with the same load, ball and a .030" denim patch, shoots identically- right to the sights (set in 1986).
I suspect the most difference will be in the smaller bores, as with larger bores, you can also get away with more ball and bullet defects than with smaller bores.

[northmn]

Generally would agree.  when I sighted in my 20 smooth rifle I found that a thicker patch did not do much.  I ended up using one a little thinner.  Had the same groups. 

DP

[Leatherbelly]

Daryls,
    Leave that .58 at home Sunday.It's tooo loud!   and accurate also! bugga!

[B.Habermehl]

I have found a tighter patch and ball combo to shoot lower as well as higher in different guns. My unsientific guess is either it's due to barrel harmonics or barrel time/recoil effect. Just a classic example of each gun and load being something  of a law unto itself.

[Leatherbelly]

   Hey Rog,
     Off to the range to try a larger ball(.495) and a thinner patch(.o20). Have been shooting 490's with a .022 so I will report back if and how things change. Later. LB

[Leatherbelly]

 Sorry guys,
   Never proved a thing today. well,one thing,I need more practice to avoid a terrible flinch! I hear following thru helps also. Cold wet day may have added to the mix. Try again tomorrow.

[Roger Fisher]

Sorry guys,
   Never proved a thing today. well,one thing,I need more practice to avoid a terrible flinch! I hear following thru helps also. Cold wet day may have added to the mix. Try again tomorrow.
[/quote) As you continue to shoot that flinter and concentrate on the frt site/bead and the target - after a while you will not 'see' the flash.

[Artificer]

I shot a borrowed .45 flint rifle for years that didn't much seem to matter a whole lot on patching unless it was so thick I almost had to hammer the patch/bullet combo down the barrel.  However on THAT rifle, it only shot it's best with 42 1/2 grains of fff that I had to actually measure with a beam balance powder measure and then made an antler measure to throw that charge as accurately as possible.  When I shot on targets, though, I always shot premeasured charges.
The ranges were 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards.

I also owned an original percussion halfstock rifle in .36 that would shoot really tight groups with a wide variety of ball and patch sizes and be able to hit a tack at 50 yards if I could hold it well enough.  I always wondered if that iron barrel had something to do with it vs the modern steel barrels.

Gus
 

[northmn]

Dennis or K Guy would know, but I thought I read some place that the Southern gunsmiths liked soft barrels of nearly wrought iron because they thought them more accurate.  Claimed they could almost swanp one with a draw knife.

DP

[Daryl]

DP- there are many references to the shooting capabilities of the soft iron barrels- due to the soft iron and the way it handles or deadens vibrations(harmonics).