Questions on J.P.Beck Rifles

[don getz]

Son of a b_____, I am in the process of putting a Beck together, and I only put one "copper" rivet in the nose cap, and
I am not going to go back and add some to it.  I can just see it, when someone looks at the finished product, they are
going to say, "wow, nice Beck, but you really screwed up, you didn't put three rivets in the nosecap".   I threw all of my
extra copper rivets away, along with those crazy dividers, had no use for them......Don

[HistoricalArmsMaker]

Yeah, but Don, its good that there is the attention to learning the details. Its all in the challenging yourself and recreating the art of the craft. Whether its a heavy buttplate, using dividers to locate points or putting in 3 rivets as opposed to only one, its the craft of what we do.
When we can't enjoy it as a challenge, it will be time to quit!
Susie

[long carabine]

 Yes Don its the challenge of recreating a correct rifle. Its the little things that mean a lot. Sort of like restoring a car then taking it to a car show.....the little things mean a lot. IMHO

[don getz]

I just hope that when you are finished with your Beck rifle, complete with those three rivets in the nose cap, that the
first guy you show it to says "wow, nice wood", that should really leave you mumbling........Don

[deano]

I don't know about the rest of you guys but to Mr. Getz' s observation I find more to mumble about every day! I might as well add three ignored rivets to the mountain of annoying things I have on the list.

Deano

[t.caster]

It all depends on what level of authenticity you aspire to! Since most guys today are doing there own version (contemporary) what difference does it make if you use 3 rivits and the golden mean? MOST modern builders take shortcuts when doing carving on a Beck rifle, (judging by the numerous "so called" Beck's F/S on TOW sight over the years) because of the difficulty anyway. So why would they worry about the rivits?
I personally take the recreation of a Beck rifle quite seriously, and will loose a lot of sleep over this issue, since I have built four Becks and didn't know about the 3 rivits till this year!!! OMG! I'm going to have to issue a recall!!!
IMHO, J.P. Beck was the Rembrandt of colonial gunbuilders, and I would rather see a Beck rifle reproduced with no carving at all than some silly contemp. flowers & squigglies that don't represent his style. 

[b bogart]

Senor Caster
When those rifles come back in for recall send them to me I'll make sure they get disposed of!!! Just trying to help a brother out!

Bruce

[Jim Kibler]

Guys,

It's good to understand the details and try to get them right, but don't loose sight of the fact that there are FAR more important things to worry about than the number of rivits in a nose cap.  In my opinion your first priority should be to get the most important things right first and then worry about the rest.  Proper architecture, hardware, carving, engraving, finish etc. should be the priority.  Think this what Don was ever so tactfully trying to convey.

[JCKelly]

As long as you're going to be correct about rivets that only you will see. . . in the Fall 1961 KRA Bulletin, Samuel E. Dyke noted that engraved on the bottom of some, though not all, JP Beck barrels was in script: I+N+R+I

[t.caster]

JC, another was inscribed "D E O", thought to translate "with the help of God".
Yes, it is with God's good graces I am able to build things. I wonder if back then as now these sentiments were sacreligious (i.e., politically incorrect), hence, he hid it under the barrel!

[JTR]

I can just see it, when someone looks at the finished product, they are
going to say, "wow, nice Beck, but you really screwed up, you didn't put three rivets in the nosecap". 
....Don

Yep! That's what I'm gonna say if I ever see it!! 

John

[J.D.]

JC, another was inscribed "D E O", thought to translate "with the help of God".
Yes, it is with God's good graces I am able to build things. I wonder if back then as now these sentiments were sacreligious (i.e., politically incorrect), hence, he hid it under the barrel!

 "With the help of God" is translated from the Latin  "Auxilio Dei."

Don't know what D E O might imply, unless it expresses some form of  "God" in Latin.

[Karl Kunkel]

I think you're correct there, isn't Deo a latin form for God (as in: in excelsis Deo)?

[don getz]

I guess J. P. built a lot of guns, I have no idea of how many, but in  studying all of the one's that I have pictured in the
various books I own, I noticed that there are no two alike when it comes to the carving behind the cheekpiece.  I always
liked his carving, which appears to be rather bold, but so well executed..........Don

[mr. no gold]

I seem to remember that one of the KRA books showed a fine JP Beck rifle that they said bears this inscription on the bottom flat of the barrel:  J  DEO  Beck. It might have been in the Red Back Book, or the later Jim Johnson book. I don't remember which, if so.
For some strange reason, Beck rarely carved the right wrist side of his wood box rifles. Also, most had half round barrels. Anyone have an explanation for this? On the other hand, his rifles with brass boxes were well carved almost everywhere. Arts and mysteries of the trade, I suppose.
Best-Dick

[Eric Laird]

This is really reaching back - junior high latin class - but isn't "Deo" the dative form of Deus (God), meaning "to/for/from God"? I believe "Gloria in excelsis Deo" translates as "Glory in the highest, to God." So much for dead languages!
Eric

[t.caster]

JC, another was inscribed "D E O", thought to translate "with the help of God".

That was Shumway's comment on DEO, not my translation. Deo to me is just a noun for God or a higher being, not a phrase. But I flunked Latin in the 9th grade. Sister Julia said I'd never become a priest or a doctor or lawyer because of that! She was right about that! Sounds like some of you guys  here also attended parochial schools, or penitentuaries as Bill O'Rielly calls them.

[J.D.]

Nope, attended public school. I just have an insatiable curiosity and a good search engine. 

[greybeard]

As long as you're going to be correct about rivets that only you will see. . . in the Fall 1961 KRA Bulletin, Samuel E. Dyke noted that engraved on the bottom of some, though not all, JP Beck barrels was in script: I+N+R+I

  INRI translates to   Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews

[B Shipman]

Don, for the really anal among us, those three rivets were usually copper. 

[satwel]

I'm glad this topic came up as I'm working on a Beck rifle right now and was unaware he used this technique. Though my finished rifle won't come close to equaling the artistic merits of an original, if three rivets adds a touch of authenticity, then I'll do it.

[Clark Badgett]

INRI= Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum, translates to Jesus the Nazarene, King of the Jews

[JTR]

For those guys that were here when this thread was started, I wonder if George F ever finished this gun?

As for the INRI inscription, to look at a Beck rifle and to actually see the INRI he engraved on the bottom of the barrel is truly something special.
As for his actual reason for putting it there we'll never know for sure. We can assume, speculate, etc, but for whatever reason, at least for me, it certainly adds something special to those guns. But then I like to run my fingers over a makers signature, or over the engraving or carving, so who knows! 

John

[Fullstock longrifle]

Christian Beck and Nicholas Beyer used INRI on their barrels as well on occasion.  I agree with you John, I really enjoy seeing that inscription on their barrels, it's a special touch.

Frank