Author Topic: Help me identify an old Percussion Target Rifle  (Read 4090 times)

griaguns

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Help me identify an old Percussion Target Rifle
« on: November 08, 2010, 05:56:09 PM »
I live in B.C Canada and just picked up a Percussion 1/2 Stock Target rifle to go with the rest of my American made antique military and sporting rifles.
The barrel has had a rear sight added and the dove tail has covered part of the name on top of the barrel.
The barrel has a hook breach and is 1" 1/8th across the flats with the muzzle turned for a short starter approx 1" The name S.H. HAND 1873 is stamped on the end of the muzzle (on the muzle around the bore) , Remington is stamped  on the breach end bottom flat just in front of the breach plug.The added rear sight is just behind the name .NELSON .Seems that there should be another name where the dove tail has been cut.There is a provision for a lollipop site on the upper tang
Can anybody help with identifying this rifle.
Graham

Offline nord

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Re: Help me identify an old Percussion Target Rifle
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2010, 07:04:09 PM »
Photos my friend. Photos!
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Help me identify an old Percussion Target Rifle
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 01:12:20 AM »
Remington, Ilion New York was a major 19th century barrel producer. I have seen a number of them on Michigan made guns.

Looked through American Gunsmiths, Frank Sellers, The Canadian Gunsmiths, S. James Gooding, and The New York State Firearms Trade, H.J. Swinney.  Cannot find anyone named Hand. Sellers lists several Nelsons. Swinney has two, Roger Nelson and his son James. Both came from Massachusetts, both worked for Remington in German Flatts, now called Ilion.

Offline nord

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Re: Help me identify an old Percussion Target Rifle
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 01:50:48 AM »
Since this area was my boyhood home I'll slightly disagree...

Courtesy of Wickepedia:

The Town of German Flatts is in the south part of Herkimer County, across from the of Village of Herkimer on the south side of the Mohawk River, and southeast of Utica.
Contents
[hide]

    * 1 History
          o 1.1 Herkimer
          o 1.2 Towns
    * 2 Geography
    * 3 Demographics
    * 4 Communities and locations in German Flatts
    * 5 References
    * 6 External links

[edit] History
[edit] Herkimer

This was one of the original areas of the Burnetsfield Patent, when Palatine German immigrants were granted leases to purchase land from the Mohawk Iroquois in 1722-1723. The village was attacked during the French and Indian War, as well as during the American Revolutionary War. Residents retreated to Fort Herkimer, which they built on the south bank of the Mohawk River.

The town was set apart in the now defunct Tryon County, which was broken up into Montgomery and other counties after the Revolutionary War. It was established as a town in 1788 before the formation of Herkimer County. Previous to the establishment, the area that was to become the town had also been called German Flatts.
[edit] Towns

In 1791, when Herkimer County was established, German Flatts was one of the three original towns. Three new towns were created from German Flatts in 1792: Frankfort, Litchfield, and Warren. Another part of German Flatts was used in 1829 to form part of the Town of Little Falls.
[edit]


The Village of Ilion is at the north town line of the Town of German Flatts. The Erie Canal is north of the village.
Contents
[hide]

    * 1 History
    * 2 Demographics
    * 3 Schools
    * 4 References
    * 5 External links

[edit] History

The area where Ilion is located was first settled by Palatine Germans under the Burnetsfield Patent around 1725. Settlers first established residencies along Steeles Creek, which flows through the current village into the Mohawk River. Many mills were set up along the creek. After the American Revolution, a small community was set up in the area named New London. This area of the village still has buildings which use the name London.

The community began to flourish starting around 1816 when Eliphalet Remington created his first gun, which would later grow into the Remington Arms company. The community was even further advanced with the completion of the Erie Canal in 1825.

In 1843 a post office was desired,[citation needed] so a name needed to be chosen. Remington rejected the use of his name as a name for the village,[citation needed] and it was eventually named Ilion. A popular, yet unverified rumor is that the application said Illium, but due to a misspelling or bad penmanship was interpreted as Ilion.

The Village of Ilion was incorporated in 1852. Ilion is one of only twelve villages in New York still incorporated under a charter, the other villages having incorporated or re-incorporated under the provisions of Village Law.[1]


Ilion may have been part of the Town of German Flats before 1792 but was never looked upon as German Flats to the best of my knowledge. After 1792 Ilion was located in the Town of Frankfort. Thus Remington has always been located in the Town of Frankfort.

As to Remington barrels:

By the time the Erie Canal came in transhipment of barrels and components became easy. A part of my family was engaged in the Great Lakes trade out of Oswego and Buffalo. They scattered westward to Michigan and Wisconsin and down the Mississippi. By 1845 the railroads were coming in. Travel and trade became easier by at least a magnitude.

What I'm getting at is that we need photos of the gun to determine a general style. From there it may be possible to come a bit closer to  the maker and a general date range.
In Memory of Lt. Catherine Hauptman Miller 6/1/21 - 10/1/00 & Capt. Raymond A. Miller 12/26/13 - 5/15/03...  They served proudly.

Offline smokinbuck

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Re: Help me identify an old Percussion Target Rifle
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2010, 05:12:13 AM »
There was also a Roger Nelson in Medina, Ohio, Medina County. Born in 1818, in the cencus of Medina County in 1859.
Mark
Mark