Author Topic: home made breech plug  (Read 21020 times)

Offline Dphariss

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Re: home made breech plug
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2010, 07:10:41 AM »
so when making breech plugs whats better

coarse or fine thread

and how about welding or soldering the breech plug

You need to be careful welding on grade 5 of grade 8 bolts.
Brazing silver or brass, will work but I make them from one piece.
Dan


curious what you need to be careful about when welding a grade 5 or 8??   thanks in advance, mark

Since they are heat treated carbon steel (grade 8 are a higher strength alloy steel) they may well get brittle and break if welded and not annealed afterwards.

Dan





thanks for the info dan.but in that light, would it be safe to use a soft bolt? or should that be annealed too? or would it be too soft?  thanks again, dan

The machined breeches on the market are all leaded screw stock or something similar so having a high strength alloy is not needed. I used the HR GB steel because I can get it fairly easy and its good stuff.

Dan
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greybeard

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Re: home made breech plug
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2010, 07:15:24 AM »
If perchance that a body has limited metal working skills it woud be wise to spend the $20.00
for a machined plug by someone in the trade who understands the process.

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: home made breech plug
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2010, 05:37:58 PM »
If perchance that a body has limited metal working skills it woud be wise to spend the $20.00
for a machined plug by someone in the trade who understands the process.
Exactly :)

Offline Dphariss

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Re: home made breech plug
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2010, 08:38:02 PM »
Now, I'll be one of the first to say "go ahead and make it" for most things...and I'm known for doing everything the hard way myself, but honestly, unless you're making the barrel to go with it (or perhaps fitting a new plug to an old barrel with odd sizing/threads), I don't see much need in making a breechplug.   ???

I know not everyone has the ability or desire to make their own parts and I understand completely. The reader here is not, afterall, REQUIRED to buy a mill and a lathe and make a breech plug or lockplate.
But...
The one I made in the above photos was to replace a shop made breech, its not something that can be bought, period. So to do it right it had to be made in house. Owner wanted the breech left in the old barrel for reasons already stated.
Why did the original maker make the plug? Because he is A GUN MAKER and he worked to a standard, he could make a better plug for THAT APPLICATION than he could buy.  He would make things in shop, locks and breeches etc if needed because he could make the finished gun LOOK RIGHT and not use some generic part sold by a supplier that will "function" but that's about as much as can be said in certain applications. Its still not possible to buy a good long tang plug so far as I know. I have not even tried in quite some time. Plus he started making guns in the 1950s and HAD to learn to make his own parts BEFORE HE HAD A MILL OR LATHE. There were very few parts available at the time compared to today.

The last 5 barrels I breeched I made the plugs. I did not have to in the case of 2 of them but I did anyway. If I want a short breech plug I would rather have more than 4 threads which may be all you end up with if the plug has a rebate BEHIND the threads. When I make my own I know what they are and they are made the way I WANT. I can make a tighter fit on the threads for example rather than having several thousandths "tolerance". I can make better vent liners than I can buy as another example.  I made my own for years anyway because the ones available at the time were made to sell and how suitable they were was secondary. Some parts on the market are made and/or designed by people who don't know siccum about gunmaking but have an idea or a machine setting idle and put it to work to make parts to sell. Or they make parts for someone on order then let the tolerances slip a little...
There are parts available that are excellent and most of us know who the makers are. Some of the generic stuff is pretty grim and often its coin toss as to whether is worth having.
I have used precarves, but usually regret it. In trying to make a Vincent Ohio rifle once on a budget for a guy I knew I sent back 3-4 precarves in a row. The 4th/5th only had a screwed up lock inlet and I gave up and MADE a lock plate to fit the hole.
The supplier was stuck with a guy cutting this pattern who, the supplier told me frankly, did not much give a @!*%.
It turned out fine in the end and the friend who now owns now it really likes the rifle.
But in the end I could have made it from a blank cheaper I suppose.

One of the reasons for a site like this is to diversify peoples understanding and skills.
There is little skill needed to pick up a catalog and ordering a bunch of generic parts the supplier recommends and a preshaped stock. A good serviceable, even a fine rifle can be made in this way. But it will not be especially unique if the viewer can tell which precarve was used from across the room.
Demonstrating how to do the hard stuff, even if the reader will never do the work, is the value of forums such as this.
If the reader has a project or encounters one that requires a breechplug that he cannot buy knowing that a two piece "plain breech" with a high temp silver soldered tang will withstand decades of hard service opens a door that allows him to make the breech plug/tang he needs with the tools at hand in most shops. With surprisingly little work.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Online JTR

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Re: home made breech plug
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2010, 09:28:13 PM »
Quote
its not seam welded its the to walls are ground at a angle and welded

oh im going to proof it lol have to i will never fire it with out proofing it

for 8ga it be 3.5oz of shot and 248gr of fg

Sounds like announcing your candidacy for a Darwin award to me.  ::)

John
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 06:04:35 AM by JTR »
John Robbins

Offline Dphariss

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Re: home made breech plug
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2010, 10:25:34 PM »

Take your bore size, and that will be the root diameter of your plug as a minimum. A little bigger than bore dia is better.

Be very careful of that seam welded tube, mate. Make sure you proof the bugger.

its not seam welded its the to walls are ground at a angle and welded

oh im going to proof it lol have to i will never fire it with out proofing it

for 8ga it be 3.5oz of shot and 248gr of fg

Proving a material that is not suitable for "pressure vessels" proves nothing.

It could pass proof and fail at the first service load fired.
Arc welding is a really bad idea in gun barrels.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline bgf

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Re: home made breech plug
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2010, 10:30:29 PM »
Please find a real gun barrel.  I have done my share of dangerous things, but it really isn't worth the risk in this case.  The weld may hold, only to have metal along the seam rip out.  If it is too hard or brittle, it may work fine until it doesn't, at which point, it really works badly.

dannybb55

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Re: home made breech plug
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2010, 07:25:57 PM »
If you have a vertical milling machine and a lathe you can make a plug, otherwise, go out and buy one ready made, then
spend your time fitting it to the barrel........Don
How do the men at Williamsburg do it?