Red Maple

[C. Cash]

I originally posted this on Sparkchaser's Silver Maple thread but didn't feel right about it.  So, I thought I would ask, is Red Maple much better than Silver Maple?  Are they similar in terms of softness?  I've bought a rifle kit from TVM with the former wood, and it made a beautiful rifle, but will such wood give you trouble with much shooting and/or heavy loads?   I've been told not overtighten my lock bolts by my gunbuilder...advice which I will heed for sure.  But just wondering what other problems there might be with these "soft" Maple woods.  Thanks!

[Kentucky Jeff]

It varies from sample to sample as much as sugar maple does...  I've handled plenty of hard dense red maple and some not so much.   Once its stained few people can discern the difference. 

[B Shipman]

All maple varies in hardness, or what we call density,  from tree to tree based on heredity of the tree and growing conditions. Silver maple is generally thought to be too soft for rifles. Red maple however can be very dense. Though it's not as dense in general as sugar maple, it's not uncommon to find pieces that that are and some that's denser than some sugar maple. It's really a matter of choosing a good piece.    The terms soft and hard maple for red and sugar maple are just terms to distinguish the two. Red maple, for example , is usually heavier than black walnut. Red maple can be quite hard.

[C. Cash]

Thanks Gents! I guess the piece on my rifle is not very hard.....but hopefully will hold up over time.  Very much appreciate your input.

[rich pierce]

No need to worry about it holding up.  Softer red maple can be harder to carve but that's the main drawback of softer red maple.

[Stophel]

Red maple can be fine and hard.  It can be soft too.

NEVER buy wood simply described as "soft maple".  It will likely be silver maple, and it definitely will be soft.

[Acer Saccharum]

In my limited understanding, red maple was the most common wood for Hudson Valley fowlers, and the like. Even tho' we have plenty of sugar maple along the Hudson, red was used. Why?  Were we saving the Sugar maples for syrup and sugaring?

Acer (maple) Saccharum (sugar)

Acer Rubrum (red)

Tom

[C. Cash]

Acer,

Funny....I was doing research last night on maple, if you call pecking around on the internet research, and it hit me about your moniker!  I figured you were the sugar variety being a builder. 
Thank you fellas! 

[northmn]

I ahve made maple sugar.  Some maples I tapped would yield a lot of sap some almost nothing regardless of type.  Black maple or sugar maple seemed to do the best but I would hate to say.  It might be a sugar maple has a better yield after boiling.  Also tapped maple trees will have tap holes in them which could interfere with stocks.  Even birch will give sugar sap but requires more boiling.  In the colonial days sugaring was quite a event because that and honey were the primary sweeteners.  One man's speculation is as good as another.

DP

[Jerry V Lape]

northmn, you bring up an interesting point with your remarks about Black Maple which is so similar to Sugar Maple.  I haven't heard anyone discuss Black as a distinct stock making wood and wonder if it is simply getting lumped in with either Sugar Maple or Red Maple which may account for some of the density differences within those species of wood.  Black maple seems to be very similar in live appearance to Sugar so  I suspect it is being sold as Sugar maple which has greater commercial value.  I have never seen Blacik's wood identified in a separate wood from the others.  But I have never specificially made a comparison of the woods to determine whether they are also alike in density/hardness.  Wonder if the collective knowledge on here will produce an answer to that question for us? 

[Robert Wolfe]

I believe that Black and Sugar Maple are treated the same in the trade. Most folks walking in the woods would not notice the difference in looking at one or the other. Both are considered "hard" maples.

[Acer Saccharum]

I'll have to go look up Black in my tree book. Sometimes the range or climate is different.

Acer

[Robert Wolfe]

The range largely overlaps. Ecologically, Black Maple is probably more tolerant than Sugar Maple of wetter soils, though the seperation is not clear cut. It is not unusual to find them growing together on the same site.

[Dennis Glazener]

The second (not from kit) rifle that I made was a piece of Black Maple that I got from Fred Miller. It was hard and worked well. The thing I noticed about it was when I applied Aqua Fortis and heated, it came out a nice blond color. I wanted it darker so I applied a heavy second coat and it still was blond! I thought maybe it was the mix of Aqua Fortis and tested it on a piece of sugar maple and it turned the sugar maple a very dark blackish color with no hints of red, brown or blond in it. I thought that interesting.

Dennis

[flintriflesmith]

The second (not from kit) rifle that I made was a piece of Black Maple that I got from Fred Miller. It was hard and worked well. The thing I noticed about it was when I applied Aqua Fortis and heated, it came out a nice blond color. I wanted it darker so I applied a heavy second coat and it still was blond! I thought maybe it was the mix of Aqua Fortis and tested it on a piece of sugar maple and it turned the sugar maple a very dark blackish color with no hints of red, brown or blond in it. I thought that interesting.

Dennis

I believe that the acid and heat caramelizes the sugar in sugar maple. That may help explain the darker color.

[Beaverman]

Gentlemen, while we're discussing maple and the various types, what about broad leaf maple? I live in the PNW where we have literally 10's of thousands of these growing along the coastal range, everywhere! Ive been lucky enough to align myself with a gent who owns a tree service and have been called from time to time with figured pieces that he has, everything from birdeye, flame, and curly, have several pieces slabbed and drying at the moment, I have kilned(home made kiln) some smaller resawn pieces and have used to turn for horn plugs and knife handles, the stuff turns like a dream,and sands and burnishes well, how about for rifle stocks? Thanks, Beav

[Jerry V Lape]

The only Maple blanks I have seen from the Wash and Oregon area have been pretty lightweight which scared me off making rifle from them.  The only figured northwest maple I have seen was quilted, which is beautiful in furniture, but would look rather weird in a rifle (according to my tastes anyway).  I may not have been looking at the Big Leaf Maple you asked about. 

[woodsrunner]

IMO B Shipman is pinging on target with his comments, and that points out why depending on fellas like Freddie Harrison and Wayne Dunlap is so critical in our hobby.

The US Forest Service Forest Products Lab in Madison,Wi. publishes a book called "The Wood Handbook" which gives more information about every commercially valuable tree in the USA than you'll ever want to know. It is helpful, though, in seperating out species qualities and engineering factors.

Down here in the Deep Southern Coastal Plain we have a minor species of Maple called Florida Maple (Acer barbatum) that is a dead ringer for Northern Sugar Maple (A.saccharum). I have an idea that the wood qualities are about equal to Sugar Maple, and it probably has some curl along and along, too. Think I'll take a closer look at some of this Florida Maple

[T*O*F]

Down here in the Deep Southern Coastal Plain we have a minor species of Maple called Florida Maple (Acer barbatum) that is a dead ringer for Northern Sugar Maple (A.saccharum). I have an idea that the wood qualities are about equal to Sugar Maple

I doubt it.  The length of the growing season has much to do with wood quality.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Beaverman, I have stocked many longrifles in Western maple and they are dense, hard and beautiful wood.  They took carving well and finished up super smooth.  But like any wood, some planks are better than others...need to be selective and vigilant.

[deano]

I was told once that the ray's were more plentiful in red maple vs sugar maple. Rays are the short darker lines in the wood visible between the growth rings, sugar still shows them but not as many.  By the time the stock is stained they are not at all visible just a way to identify species.

Any forestry majors out there that can tell me if this is correct?

Ken

[Beaverman]

Beaverman, I have stocked many longrifles in Western maple and they are dense, hard and beautiful wood.  They took carving well and finished up super smooth.  But like any wood, some planks are better than others...need to be selective and vigilant.

Thanks Taylor, Ive used some of the smaller pieces for knife scales and turned horn plugs and they seem to be as dense as some of the sugar maple Ive had from guys in the east, have one in the oven now large enough for a pistol stock, hope to be working on it after the new year, Ill report back when that happens, this stuff has some very tight patterns in it.

[Stophel]

I was told once that the ray's were more plentiful in red maple vs sugar maple. Rays are the short darker lines in the wood visible between the growth rings, sugar still shows them but not as many.  By the time the stock is stained they are not at all visible just a way to identify species.

Any forestry majors out there that can tell me if this is correct?

Ken

Rays are hard dense structures that radiate out from the center of the tree.  Oak is famous for rays, as is sycamore.  Maple doesn't really have rays.