Remember when original muzzy's were everywhere

[Buckscoshooter]

Just gathering some thoughts. I can remember back to the late 1960's to the mid 70's when My father and I would go all over Pennsylvania to gun shows/auctions held in the old Treadway Inn's and Motels and even barns. What a sight to see. It was like going to little Museums. Kentucky/Pennsylvania LongRifles were a plenty and the chance to own one for a fair dollar was a reality. My how times have changed. Wish I had a "Wayback Machine" I can vividly remember some of the ORIGINAL LongRifes available at that time. There were more presentation grade rifles with fancy carvings and orinate inlays than you couls imagine. I often wish I had the forsite to collect or even hord some of these beauties back in the day. Collecting and trading was commom, but I guess the real collectors with the stronger love affairs with these guns knew to pile em' up as the well would eventually run dry. Interesting to wonder just how many of these guns are sitting in black holes,not to see the light of day. Actually wouldn't it be grand if they would turn up more often at estate sales as closet classics to be viewed and documented. Ah, just some wishful thinking. How do you guys remember the early rennasance of Muzzy's.

[woodsrunner]

I've not had the experiences that you have simply because I grew up in a different part of the Country....at least I think that is the reason. In the Southern Mountains I never knew anyone who actually hunted with a muzzleloader, but I knew of a number of them being around. My Grandfather who reared me had his little .32cal caplock, and I had a SXS given to me by a neighbor. We never had gunshows anywhere around where I'm from. You would have had to go to Chattanooga or Atlanta for that.I think that there are still a fair number of muzzleloaders stuck back in the corner somewhere in the Mountains. Look at my friend Billy Harkins for example. He's turned up probably 12-15 in the last five years around home. As an interesting sidenote, I do remember a couple of old Negro men (tennant farmers) down around Warm Springs, Ga. who rabbit hunted with muzzleloaders back in the late 1940's-early 50's. Thinking about it now I think one of these old muzzleloaders was probably an old military musket bored out to a smoothbore. Wonder where these pieces are now!

[Dennis Glazener]

I had about the same experience as Woodsrunner. I grew up in South Central VA about 20 miles north of the NC line. Never heard of or saw a muzzleloader until Davy Crockett used one on TV probably late 50's. Everybody had a gun or two even the non-hunters. I grew up playing with butcher knives and shooting single shot 22's but no muzzleloaders. Every once in awhile you would see an old rabbit eared double barrel but that was the oldest guns around. Where did the old muzzleloaders go? I always heard that they were taken to war during the early part of the civil war. I assume that as soon as the bearer was issued or found a military musket the old muzzleloader was abandoned or turned in. I guess even if they were not carried off to war that many were turned in for the war cause. I guess most of them were salvaged for the steel/iron to help fight those Yankee invaders
Dennis

[woodsrunner]

Dennis, your Post reminds me of something.........
Every German K98k that was a GI Bringback after WWII was a sniper's rifle that "shot 3 of my buddies before I killed the @!*% sob", and every original Southern muzzleloader I've ever seen was "used to kill yankees at Gettysburg"! I have a beautiful little J.P.Sauer double hammergun that I traded off James Levy before he realized it had originally been Hermann Gohering's personal shotgun 

[8905c]

I grew up in Guernsey County Ohio. I remember a friend of my father's who had quite a collection of original muzzleloading rifles. This guy owned a truck and had route picking up milk from farms and taking it to the dairy. This would have been in the 40's & 50's. He was in the right places during the right time period. I can recall him saying that he paid between .50 and $2.00 each for the rifles he had in his collection.
In the early 60's, someone broke into his home and stole his collection of muzzleloading rifles.
8905c

[valongrifles]

Actually, there are a lot more original muzzleloaders in personal holdings than you would think. I know of several in just my own area that have quite a few. the present owners aren't ones to tell just anyone their interests and have acquired their treasures in business deals over decades and in some cases inherited their parents' collections and added thereto. Sometimes I am taken aback not knowing what was just a short distance away. They are private folks and not interested in joining groups to share what they have. A few here, a few there, and before you know it there are lots of them stashed. Rumor has it that a lot of arms were secreted away during the civil war as they were fair game for the raiding Yankees. I've heard of many rifles stashed in walls and barn lofts and left there until the house/barn burned down. If I'm correct, lots of old stuff was destroyed when Bannerman's in NY burned down.

[Curt J]

I grew up in North Central Illinois during the 1950' & early 1960's. We did have some small gun shows in the area back then. I remember seeing crusty old percussion schuetzens and heavy Plains rifles for prices that wouldn't buy a lock today. Too bad I was a kid with no money. I remember Dad buying an 1873 Winchester in pretty nice shape for $14. Dad ran an auto repair shop and also worked on tractors and farm equipment, and often made "house calls" on farms. Nearly every old farmer had a dirty old muzzle-loader of some kind in the corner of the barn or machine shed.

[Levy]

I worked on an oil research vessel for the Shell Oil company back in 1969 (remember Camille) and we were moored in Morgan City, LA.  We were out a week and in a week and I would take the fire watch and stay with the vessel when everyone went home.  I was there by myself and would go just down the road to the Spanish Trails Gunshop.  They had several old Southern Mtn. Rifles on the walls for $50 to $70.  I didn't think much about it at the time being more interested in the fancier Pennsylvania rifles.

James Levy

[jmdavis]

I was born in Tennessee,  just a few miles from Soddy Daisy as a matter of fact in Bradley County, and grew up in Central Virginia. While I can recall the barrel of trapdoors in a hardware store somewhere in SE TN, I am fairly certain that I never once saw a Muzzleloader as a kid. We all had .22's and/or shotguns but I was in my 20's before I ever met someone who shot muzzleloaders.

I first got into them for hunting and I'm a little ashamed to admit that my first ML was a modern Knight Legend. It was only in the past few years that the historic and ritualistic aspects began to appeal to me and the modern gun was replaced by caplocks, underhammers, and flintlocks. They've become something of a passion and I enjoy shooting and hunting with them more than any other guns. 

I wonder how many of those old guns went the way of the McClellan saddles or the Remington Damascus barrels that were in my Uncle's Barn (ie rotted and were thrown in the dump). 

Mike

[wvmtnman]

For the most part, I think the days of buying anything old and valuable at a "good" price is a thing of the past.  Television shows have spread the word about the worth of these things.  So much that some people think that if they sell their dads .22, they will be able to go on vacation in Cancun.
    In the mid 1970's who would have thought that a muscle car would be bringing what they are now.  The secert is figuring out what will be rare and valuable in the future.  Usually, these items include everyday things that were ment to be used, not collected. 
                                                                                 Brian

[satwel]

Thanks to the internet and TV (Antiques Roadshow, Pawn Stars, etc.) , there are no more bargains to be had for gun collectors. If someone has a gun they want to sell, they can quickly research comparable values via the WWW (Amoskeag Auctions, Cowens, etc.). Then they can post it on the web and market it to a global audience.
Years ago, I met an older gun enthusiast through a mutual friend. He told us that as a boy, the antique dealer he worked for after school, would buy Civil War guns at auctions by the bundle! The shop keeper would let him pick a rifle out of the bundle as payment. A typical bundle contained 10 or 12 weapons. Eddie discovered he was working cheap when he found out the antique dealer was paying about $10 per bundle. This would have been around WWII.

[Longshot]

Digging around in the loft for something I probably no longer own I came across a box of old books which contained a few surprises including; catalog #31 [antique firearms and edged weapons], from Robert Abels inc., Lexington ave., N Y. I vaguely remember ordering it,as a kid, back in the '50's. Geezh, if I had only.........
Anyway, all original stuff [b+w pictures], with descriptions and prices, i.e.,#404. 36 cal. rifled fine Kentucky w/fine curly maple stock, ornate brass patchbox, 43 1/2" bbl.,60" overall, full stock. barrel marked with maker Jonathan Waite -$265. You want smooth; #425 fine flint fowling piece w/engraved lock. The mounts are chiseled and gilt. 42 1/2" elaborate barrel -blued and inlaid with gold, from muzzle to breech -animals, scrolls. Side plate is chiseled and gilt. Dates 1770 -very fine condition, museum piece -$300
On and on and on, -122 pages.

So near.....................and gone!

[Sequatchie Rifle]

With the internet, seams like we have access to more rifles than ever before.  In terms of prices, consider what the average "Joe" earned in the late 1950s thru the early 1970s and I bet that in "today's dollars" they are an excellent value!  Just my thoughts.

[valongrifles]

Longshot, these are expensive. Look at the early 40's Muzzle Blasts and most original full stock specimens with moulds and bags are an astounding $30!! One listed a full length reproduction built by legendary Carl Pippert for $275; and that was mid fifties era. But, as said by earlier posters, that was a lot of money in those times. As for no 'bargains" left, none of us would offer rediculously low prices for originals would we?

[horseman]

8905c, I too, had a similar experiance.  I was the proud owner of a "cows foot" fusil, a Civil War musket, and Union saber.  These were to be given to me upon the death of a family friend.  They were stolen the day of his funeral.  We knew who did it, but as he wasn't seen removing them from the house nothing could be done.  He wouldn't tell me where he took them so I could try to buy them back.