Brazing: Old School Style

[Rasch Chronicles]

Fellow Enthusiasts!

You know, was it not for the great divide, nay gulf, that exists between the Middle East and our Great Nation, I wouldn't have time to ponder some of the greater mysteries that trouble my sleep.

To wit: In the discussion on Make vs Buy and HC Riveting the subject of making and creating your own furniture has proven to be of exceptional merit, but it does, as I mentioned, make one think well into the early hours of the dawn day!

So, what is the consensus on brazing in the early days? How was it accomplished when they didn't have torches for localized heat? i can think of a couple of ways, like an iron plate with a hole in it that you palced the joint to be brazed over, but that's just me thinking.

Inquiring minds want to know!

Best Regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles™
The Best Turkey Hunting Tips!

[T.C.Albert]

Heating the iron hot enough to melt copper...on southern guns anyhow it seems..
TC

[whitebear]

With trigger guards, riveting two pieces together to hold them in position and sprinkling the joint with filings of brass or copper.  Heating in the forge and let the filings flow into the joint.  Heating just the work area as we do now was not easily accomplished or necessary. 

On making but plates Foxfire 5 shows pictures of the pattern that Bob Watts used.  The plate was cut out in one connected piece, bent together and braised then shaped and filed to finished size.

[Leatherbelly]

 Fathom how they hammer welded barrels from an iron skelp!

[T*O*F]

Here's how I would do it, but with a substitute for the rivet.

File small flats where the two pieces will join.  Sandwich a small piece of brass or copper sheet between them and clamp all the pieces together.  Drill and tap a hole thru the sandwich and screw an 8x32 screw.  This will lock them all together.  Remove the clamp, apply flux to the joint, and heat until the sheet flows and brazes everything together.  Cut the ends of the screw off, peen it flat and file smooth.

While I have never seen this method used on a trigger guard, I have seen it used on various other parts on original guns.  I just can't see fooling around trying to pound a rivet in an area that probably has very little access.

[David Rase]

I made my own set of folding glasses several years ago and brazed all the steel parts together using 20 mule team borax soap and strips of brass snipped from a sheet of .030" brass.  When needing to braze something gun related anymore I always use this technique.  Using brass instead of a brazing rod produces a more yellow color.
DMR

[smylee grouch]

Thanks TOF, that tip might save me some frustration as I have had trouble with the rivet method.   Gary

[David Rase]

Thanks TOF, that tip might save me some frustration as I have had trouble with the rivet method.   Gary

The screw method has merit and might be a valid option over riviting and hammering, but, rivit or screw, you can only draw the metal up so tight and once the brass or copper melts you will have the joint loosen up a bit and possibly move on you.
DMR

[smylee grouch]

That shifting has happend to me before too. In one of the gun building videos out there the fellow used silver solder to join the two together, is this a method used in the so called good old days?   Gary

[T*O*F]

you can only draw the metal up so tight and once the brass or copper melts you will have the joint loosen up a bit and possibly move on you.

Each of the steel parts is captured by screw threads.  When the sandwich metal melts, it will blob toward the center of the joint, which happens to be the screw.  If kept straight and removed upon bonding, without overheating, it will cool into a solid joint.  This is less likely to happen when using a rivet, as it will loosen up on its own as heat is applied.

[Rasch Chronicles]

Fellows,

Great answers and ideas!

What I am really kinda curious about though, is how did the heat in a localized area? They didn't have a torch back in the day, and there must have been a way for a smith to heat in real small spots... I think...

Best Regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles™
From the Self Sufficiency Series: How to Smoke Fish!

[Metalshaper]

on the coal forge,  wrap the fire in a cone!

basically if you place a sheet metal cone/cover over the burning zone of your coals.
< think like a funnel, but with the spout portion cut off >  when you crank the blower or pump the bellows, the heat is concentrated into a compact jet.  by controlling the size of the top opening you can get it to work somewhat like a torch.

works pretty slick, in certain circumstances!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

[Dphariss]

I use screws though I have not made a lot of these but this was one of my early forge projects too many years ago Screw them together or rivet.
Put some brass scraps and borax in the cavity and put the buttplate "point" down in the fire and heat.  The coal will help hold the parts together and it does not take a great deal of time if the fire is good. The brass may even show where it has flowed into the screw threads. Let it cool a little before taking it out of the fire so the joint can set. Pulling it out hot can cause  the parts to move.
Making the parts and filing for a good fit is far harder than the brazing.
Some folks cheat and weld them at the tip rather than screws or rivets.
Just make sure the screw is actually steel.
Don't ask how I figured this out

Dan

[eagle24]

Some folks cheat and weld them at the tip rather than screws or rivets.

Would it really be cheating to stick them with a wire welder, braze in the forge, then remove the spot weld?  Is it cheating any worse than a machine inletted barrel, pre-carved stock, modern drill press or bandsaw?  Just curious, not argueing.