Figure Engraving - Additional Photo added

[Jim Kibler]

Dave Person's recent post made me think it might be of interest to post a bit of figure engraving on a pistol built by Thuraine of Paris in the 1670-1675 time period.  The photo included here is not the greatest, but it's what I came up with and didn't want to take the time to try to get better.  Hopefully you'll be able to see what it is.  The quality of this engraving is very good even by Paris standards of the time.  The engraver obviously knew where he wanted to go and how to get there.  Paris work such as this would have certainly been performed by a profesional engraver.  It also is pretty clear that some pretty decent maginification was used in producing this work.  Hope you enjoy and perhaps it will provide a little inspiration.  



                       

[Ed Wenger]

That's some really nice engraving for any time period.  What always fascinates me about such quality work is the aspect you bring up about magnification.  I'm sure magnification would have been fairly primitive compared to todays standards (microscopes, bright light, etc), yet look at the results.  Thanks for the thread and pic.

           Ed

[bama]

I think that possibly the magnification was a hand held loupe as is still done in Europe by many master engravers today. I also think that much of the fine engraving like Jim has shown here may have been pushed instead of H&C. Reguardless how it was done or whatever the magnification it is wonerful engraving and thanks Jim for showing it.

[Michael]

Somewhere I remember reading that John Twiggs shop had large magnifying lenses on stands. I guess they would sit on the work bench?? My wife uses a 'lace makers lamp' which provides light and magnification when she is demonstrating lace making.

[Dphariss]

Lynton McKenzie states in his first video that in his younger days he needed no magnification.
What was done in the past I cannot say.
Dan

[smylee grouch]

ou-la la thats nice, I can only dream about getting to that level of engraving. Thanks for posting.  Gary

[Ed Wenger]

Another thing that always stands out to me regarding engraving on original European guns I've seen (and I'm talking primarily English pieces) is, the engraving is generally very fine.  By that I mean it's not cut real deep.  Also, there generally seems to be a lot of little elements that make up a bigger design.  I love the shading on this piece.  By contemporary standards it's very simple, yet highly effective.


             Ed

[Jim Kibler]

I love the shading on this piece.  By contemporary standards it's very simple, yet highly effective.


            Ed

That is one thing I enjoy about good quality 17th and 18th century engraving.  Even though they were creating something beautiful, efficiency was still key.  The minimum to create the proper effect seems to be the rule.  With much modern profesional engraving, the trend is very fine detail and huge numbers of shading cuts etc.  Much of this is of course done under a microscope.  To me this example is masterful.

[smart dog]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for posting the photos.  I stored them away in my resource library.  Shading is one of my favorite features as well, and for exactly the same reason you mentioned.  The best work was done in the major cities and even rural or provincial makers would commission urban engravers when they needed especially high quality work done.  The magnifying glass is ancient and I am sure was readily available and used by engravers.  However, since most working class men died in their 40's in the 17th century, workers were mostly young and many probably did not need magnification.  Light must have been the another key requirement.  Imagine trying to work during short, dim winter days by sunlight through a window.  I am sure there were some oil or candle lighting arrangements that helped but lighting must have been a challenge.

dave

[imray]

There is a great book out called "Steel Canvas, the art of american arms, by R. L. Wilson". It has extreme photos of more arms than you can imagine, The engraving is so intricate and wire inlay, gold silver, stock carving, through the centuries just mind blowing work!!!!! get a copy and check it out sometime, its worth owning, to go through over and over. Its kinda like the Vatican, you can go through it 100 times and see something new every time. best wishes, ray 

[B Shipman]

As an aside, it's interesting what was considered the ideal in women then and now. Do you think the babe in the engraving could get a job as a model today.

[B Shipman]

OK, only I would think of this.

[smart dog]

Hi Bill,
Unfortunately, she would be considered thin when compared to most high school and college-age males and females I've seen recently.

dave

[B Shipman]

But not the models we see in every advertisement.

[Ben I. Voss]

Hmm. Maybe I'm getting old, but I think she's kinda hot.

[Tom Currie]

Bill, You weren't for only one who thought that, just the only one to post it.  Today that woman would need one of those mid drift support panel breifs or she'd be sportin a muffin top with her jeans on !  

My favorite woman engraving is on the butt plate tang of the Caspar Zellner in RCA1. She's actually pretty.

[Robby]

Imray, I had not heard of that book, I found it on line for a little over Ten bucks, shipped. Great book, in good shape! I love books, thanks for the heads up!
Robby

[Trkdriver99]

I thought she looked good. I thought that is about the size I like um.
Ronnie

[Leatherbelly]

Bill, You weren't for only one who thought that, just the only one to post it.  Today that woman would need one of those mid drift support panel breifs or she'd be sportin a muffin top with her jeans on !  
 
 Boy,did I get a visual on this one,Tom!  

I like her.Might it be "Eve", fleeing the Garden of Eden?

[omark]

in previous time periods "ample" women were desired as they were a sort of a sign of "plenty", rather than skinny women that signified hunger or lack of plenty. sure glad i live now.   mark