Wood Patch box , Not enough wood

[smallpatch]

I've got a little dilemma, that needs the sage advice of the pros.

I'm doing final shaping of an Isaac Haines rifle, getting read to start the patch box.

The customer wants a wood box, but the only piece of wood I've got left was slabbed off way back when, and due to the wandering bandsaw, it's just not thick enough, even to make a 2 piece box. (dovetail and top piece).

Any ideas???

Any help would be appreciated.

[Bill of the 45th]

Fist question I would ask is what does the customer want or expect. Many of he originals in museums, and collections have replacement wooden lids, as they were lost or misplaced.
Unless the customer wants the grain matched, any piece of maple that's close will work.  I've even seen a couple with different wood like cherry or butternut, for contrast.  the one that comes to mind was cherry with brass wire inlay.  the stock was dark A/F.  If the slab you have is at least 1/8" you could still do a two piece with some of the dovetail wood as the lid.  carve a rail , or make a step at the lamination, like a cameo is laid up.  That's my two pense.

Bill

[smallpatch]

Bill,

I guess I should have said this before.

This is a really nice piece of "Shell Maple".  Sugar maple with a very distinct "shell" figure.  I have several pieces of maple here, but none of them even resemble the figure in this one.

I've called Wayne Dunlap.  He is checking for a piece for me.  ( hopefully from this same piece of wood.

The piece I have is just about  1/8" once I take out all the dips and flutters.  At least the grain matches.

The other thing I was thinking about, was using a brass base, so that when finished there would be a brass edge showing all around the wood box??

[Stophel]

Carve it heavily and you won't notice the grain.

I did a gun some years ago where I wanted an antler box lid.  Well, I didn't have any antler wide enough, so I made a wood lid with an antler inset.  Basically, it was done so that the antler had a wood border about 1/8" wide all the way around it.  Try something like that. Using your fancy wood as the center, inletting it into a plain wood base, with only the narrow border edging of the plain wood showing.  Make sense?

[HistoricalArmsMaker]

The end is brass and is the correct thing to do Dane. Match the arc of the plate and also its pitch across the plates butt so that when the gun is viewed from the side it looks just like you see the plates edge.
You really need at least 1/4 inch or 5/16 thick material. I had you covered on a piece 'till you said shell maple!
Susie

[Dave B]

Your thought about a domed brass top with a pierced center section using your thin section of matching grain would work nicely. I have seen this done By Ron Elert and also by Dave Rase. they made a domed brass lid and then overlayed the brass so that the wood pierced up through the domed section. depending on how thick the brass is you use you could add a filler piece of wood to get the desired height off the stock.You would still need to use a second piece of wood then to get the dovetail section in place. by the time you cap the end of the lid with brass no one will be able to tell you didn't have enough wood.
 
John Bivins talked about the use of verniers to make things match up or cover over a bad spot in a poorly done repair. I have yet to try it on guns but have made several repairs to furniture that have worked out well. Now that were talking about it you could cut a layer of material and steam form it in a two part form then glue it over a second piece with the dovetail cut into it. This way you have your matching grain and the height off the stock you want.

[Dale Halterman]

Is the piece you have thick enough to make the outer piece of a two piece cover?

If so, make the inner piece from plain maple since it won't show.

Dale H

[Brian]

What about something totally different such as ebony, horn, bone, antler, etc?  Either a full piece, or an inset as has been mentioned?  Maybe a nose cap to match?

[Blackpowder Barbie]

How about doing a metal overlay with the pretty piece you have showing in the middle, and a different piece for functionality?  I'm thinking like the wooden patchbox that's on the Bob Harn English Sporter we used for our kit.  I'd post a photo, but we're at Conner Prairie right now so I don't have my photos saved on this computer.  You should be able to see it on our web page though...

[smallpatch]

Barbie,

That's a beautiful box, but I'm not sure I'm up to that challenge.

I'll keep looking for now for a piece of shell maple to match.

[tallbear]

Smallpatch
Is it possible that you could post a picture of your wood.Maybee someone has a cutoff that would work for you that they'd part with.With as many people as we have here someone might have a match!!!

Mitch

[Stophel]

Here's the lid:


The antler part is about 3/16" thick.  With your 1/8" thick piece of wood, it will be thinner, but should still have a sufficient amount of dome shape.  If you have enough wood, you can make a "three piece" box lid.  The center show part, the edge border, and the dovetail.  The top two pieces could be made from your shell curl wood.  The bottom out of any old piece of sugar maple.  With the center and the border made from the same piece of wood, it probably won't even be noticeable that they are two separate pieces...just a carved borderline.

[smallpatch]

OK,

Here's a couple of photos of the piece.




The piece is just 1/4" on the thin side by just under 2 " wide.  With the wows and stuff from the bandsaw, it is probably less than 3/16 in some places.  Once the shelf is cut off, it will be just under 1 1/2" wide.

It's close, but kinda scary

[rich pierce]

I think it's plenty if you just glue a base to it.  Lots of lids weren't very high off the stock.

[keweenaw]

I agree with Rich.  You certainly don't need more than 3/16" above the dovetail and the front will be thinner than that.  You can also design your lid with a little vertical edge around it to gain a 1/32" or so if you think you need it.

Tom

[smallpatch]

Now, you see?

That's why I asked you guys.  I'd feel a lot better with a little more to work with, but, if I can't get another piece,  I'm going with what I've got.

Nice, wafer thin cover.

Thanks for all your help, and  WISH ME LUCK.

[Black Hand]

Could you use another piece of maple to make the dovetail portion on the inside where it wont be seen?

[Stophel]

Quarter inch thick?  You got plenty to make a two piece lid from.   

[Jim Filipski]

Got to agree with Chris:
You got plenty to work with for that style gun ( making a 2 piece lid) Now if it were a Jaeger I would like a bit more to play with.
But you've got it!
Jim

[Stophel]

While German guns can have really thick box lids, they don't have to.  They can be just as slim as on anything else.