Pedersoli Brown Bess

[JCKelly]

Anyone have personal experience taking Pedersoli's 2nd model kit & fitting first model buttplate, trigger guard and side plate to it? To make it a closer representation of an American-made Revolutionary musket. Specifically, can the first model long land pattern hardware from The Rifle Shoppe be made to fit, by appropriate brass filing & wood removal?  How about Dixie's First Model long land hardware?

Eventually I'll answer this myself, but I'd sure like to avoid buying several sets of hardware to find the pieces that can work.

My sources of inspiration include American Military Shoulder Arms, Vol I, George Moller, Battle Weapons of the Revolution, George Neumann, and Muskets of the Revolution, Bill Ahearn. I am not a re-enactor, just want a more or less authentic appearing American musket to shoot in matches. Too old & inept to start from scratch using a nice maple plank, think Dixie's Pedersoli kit is about my speed now.

[Nate McKenzie]

Rifle shop parts will not fit.  Reaves Goerhring of Columbia, Pa. makes or did make parts especially for the Pedersoli. My last phone no. for him is 717.684.2022 but they have been changing area codes in the past few years. Maybe some one will post newer contact info. Here are some pictures. Top is a Rifle Shop early model. Middle is a Pedersoli using Reaves's parts.  Bottom is a officer's model using commercial parts.

[Longknife]

Those are some real fine muskets Nate!!! JC, I believe a Ped kit is running about $850 right now and the parts to convert it may cost another $50 or so. An option  you might want to consider would be to contact "Early Rustic Arms" and order their "Malitia Musket", in the white so you could finish it up yourself. They are real fine folks to deal with...Ed

http://www.earlyrusticarms.com/pricesanddescriptions.htm

[JCKelly]

My, what beautiful muskets, Nate. Thanks to your post, I ordered a 1st model Bess buttplate & trigger guard from Reaves this afternoon. He is out of the rounded, 1st model sideplates. Now to order the Pedersoli & hunt around for a sideplate. Got one from Dixie years ago but it was small. Have an original 1st model cut down to 36" that needs a sideplate also. I'd like to think it one that Rogers Rangers cut down, but then I'd also like to think a number of other things . . .

Like the reddish color to your stocks. Years ago when I was younger & decidedly dumber I picked up an India pattern musket, converted to percussion, in Salisbury Maryland. Also bought a decoy or two from that fellow. Given the location I suspect that musket may have been liberated from the Brits 1812 -1814. It now seems criminal ignorance, but I (shudder) reconverted it to flint & sold it. One thing I recall is the remnant of old, original finish on the stock. The Brits had used some reddish finish, looked like a reddish pigment in the (I assume) oil. Someone once told me what it could have been, but I disremember. Anyway I plan to use mahogany, or whatever stain, to get some red into my Pedersoli. Given the speed at which I work & fun locating hardware I think this will be a winter's project.

Ed, i enjoyed that site. Thanks for letting me know about it.

[Artificer]

Ed,

Thanks also for sharing the site.  Have to add that to my list of resources.

JCKelly

Don't know if you might want to replace one or more ramrod pipes with earlier ones, but here's a scource for that.  Peter may also have the correct sideplate, but you would have to email him about it.

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/BROWN_BESS_MUSKET_Parts_and_accessories.html

Gus

[Nate McKenzie]

If memory serves me correctly, I think I used Old Towne Lehigh Vally Red stain on the Pedersoli.

[JCKelly]

Progress Report--Called The Rifle Shoppe & ordered 1756 Long Land Pattern thimbles, also a side plate in hopes of fitting my old cut down ~1762 LL musket, AND they have rounded sideplates, #199, specifically to fit the Pedersoli. Not in the catalog, they got these in stock after catalog came out.
Neglected to ask what else they might have specifically to fit Pedersoli . . . oh well, I guess I've been collecting brass castings for decades, anyway. Will check out that Old Towne stain availablity, mebe use some other stuff in my shop. 

[Artificer]

I have seen the replacement brown bess Dunlap makes and almost bought one about 12 years ago.  However, I figured out how to fix the cracked/broken/splintered stock I was using, so I didn't purchase one.  Just thought you may want to know about these should you decide to change stocks in the future.

http://www.dunlapwoodcrafts.com/MilitaryStocks.php

[JCKelly]

Artificer, do you know how very tempting a black cherry stock for my 'Bess might be? Yeah, I do thank you for that site info.
Checkbook & I not entirely in agreement here . . . @!*%.  Curley maple might push me over the edge . . .
$#*!'s Bells, all I started out looking for was a subtle difference or so,s tp make it an American musket . . . of course, given the date on my driver's license, this may be the last shooting musket I ever buy/put together . . . guess I do have a couple of weeks to wrestle with this before boxes of brass & iron start arriving.

Black cherry vs European walnut, huh? I'm not sure that is even a decision.

Kelly the Conflicted

[J.D.]

Anyone have personal experience taking Pedersoli's 2nd model kit & fitting first model buttplate, trigger guard and side plate to it? To make it a closer representation of an American-made Revolutionary musket.

If your goal is to make a long land pattern out of a short land pattern, which is what the Ped bess is supposed to be, the result will be even less historically correct than the production piece.

IMHO, the barrel on the Ped bess is too short, by 4 inches, for the long land pattern, in addition to the wrong shape and markings on the lock...for starters...and that is just for starters.

IMHO, if you want a correct long land pattern bess, it's gotta be custom built.

God bless

[Nate McKenzie]

Orr make a cut down long land by putting in inlets and holes where the RR thimbles and barrel pins and sling would have been before it was shortened. That's what I did. I also changed the date on the lock.

[JCKelly]

I do not want a correct Long Land pattern Bess. I wish to modify the Pedersoli to look like one of the American-made muskets which more or less followed the Long Land with assorted variations, including a range of barrel lengths and Lord knows what kind of escutcheon, if any.

Reaves Goehring's trigger guard is a wonderful improvement. His buttplate would be, also, but the Pedersoli is too small in the butt area. The length (?depth?) of the Pedersoli buttplate is about 4.8 inches, an original long land (cut down to 36") measures 5.3", and an early India pattern 5-1/8 inches. Reaves' is about 0.09" shorter than the LL. The Pedersoli stock is also too thin, roughly 3/16" thinner than the original guns. So far as I know the only way to fix this is to start from a plank, which sounded easier to me a few decades back.

I have yet to receive my Rifle Shoppe 1st model LL side plate. Dixie's is too anemic for any purpose.

Obviously, I no longer know how to use Photoshop, think it just changed stuff. If you click on the whatsit below you will see top gun Long Land 1st model, then Pedersoli kit as-received, bottom a India pattern musket from about 1809 -1810   The New Photoshop is now quite beyond my comprehension.
<img src="http://www.photoshop.com/accounts/1a6e7bfd3dc4465a8656232ad93af9a2/assets/dc0be9f79a034762a518dea7af0be157" width="3140" height="2274" alt="BrownBessKit"/>

[JCKelly]

Mixed up photobucket w photoshop Trying again with this photo

I like muskets. Top gun is dated 1762 Grice, before you drool too much I gotta say it has been cut down to 36" barrel & lock messed with by some person just as dumb as I used to be. But it is pretty much real. Next is that Pedersoli kit I just got. Finally, the bottom musket is an India pattern made up when the Brits were desperate for weapons to fight the French. By the goose-neck cock and curl to the bottom of the trigger it would appear to be about 1809 - 1810. I am told that the "IC" in the buttstock means "1st class reserves" when taken from the Regiment into stores. No details, that is just what the English gentleman said.
I will use these, mainly the 1st model, for guidance when getting up the Pedersoli kit.
Again, I am not trying to make a long land copy, but an American 18th century musket more-or-less patterned after the long land. Suppose the escutcheon is really the only thing I have to work with to get an American feel--good news, I suppose, is that my workmanship will be more American than British.

[cheyenne]

Any -progress on the Pedersoli?  Is it an optical illusion, or is the lock of the Pedersoli smaller than the locks of the original muskets?