Author Topic: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith  (Read 14765 times)

Offline Majorjoel

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Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« on: December 07, 2010, 02:41:28 PM »
I'm pleased to share a rifle made by Abias Butler Smith (B 1818 D 1900) From Clinton, Findlay Township, Allegheny Co. PA. This gunsmith had a well documented apprenticeship to Joel T. Ferree signed on May 9, 1836 until 1838. A period of 2 years and 4 months. Smith also is credited with several patents, a couple pertaining to firearms but most involving farm machinery which he took up a trade in in later years. This rifle shows a great deal of the makers inventiveness with it's interesting 45 inch swamped barrel baring his signature in script on the top flat and the barrel makers stamped name Jessie Pannebecker on the bottom flat. It has deep slow twist twin groove rifling designed to shoot a belted round ball in 32 caliber. A feature found on English\Canadian made Brunswick rifles of large caliber. Smith also built this piece with flintlock ignition. An interesting option for 1840's when percussion was more the rule. The overall length of the rifle is just a hair over 60 inches and it weighs about 10 lbs.       
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 02:20:34 AM by rich pierce »
Joel Hall

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 02:45:37 PM »
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 02:21:24 AM by rich pierce »
Joel Hall

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 02:47:26 PM »
« Last Edit: October 24, 2022, 08:48:03 AM by Tim Crosby »
Joel Hall

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 02:49:39 PM »
« Last Edit: October 24, 2022, 08:47:41 AM by Tim Crosby »
Joel Hall

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 02:51:52 PM »
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 02:22:40 AM by rich pierce »
Joel Hall

Offline Ben I. Voss

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 04:05:18 PM »
Wow! That's fabulous! Looks almost like something off Bill Shipman's bench!

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 04:14:46 PM »

 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 02:23:16 AM by rich pierce »
Joel Hall

Offline Don Getz

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2010, 04:27:16 PM »
Someone beat me to the Shipman statement, looks like it came off Bill's bench.   Where in the heck has this gun been kept to be in such pristine condition.   Patchbox is outstanding............Don

Offline Fullstock longrifle

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2010, 05:03:50 PM »
Great gun in fantastic condition.

Offline JTR

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2010, 05:57:32 PM »
Wow! Amazing!
Not a single scratch, ding, dent or anything on the metal or wood. Not even on the tight crisp edges of the lock or sideplate moldings. No discoloration anyplace in the perfect finish, all the screws in the patchbox, toe plate, etc still perfectly aligned.
That’s either by far the very best preserved original rifle I’ve ever seen, or it’s not near as old as it’s suppose to be.

Captjoel, do you have any info on how it was kept in such pristine condition?

John
John Robbins

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2010, 06:02:01 PM »
Wonderfully unusual and artistic piece...does anyone know if A.B. Smith Art Supplies in Pittsburgh shares common lineage ???

Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2010, 06:16:05 PM »
I probably should just wait to see what is said before I run my mouth, but my money is on both the wood and metal surfaces being heavily reworked in recent times.

Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 07:33:46 PM »
For what my opinion is worth regarding this rifle, and I'll be first to admit it is easy to become bias after taking a rifle into my possession. First of all, I think this rifle being an experimental work spent more days in the closet than out in the woods. That said, I also think one of it's previous owners was one of those old school cleanliness fanatics. Fortunately for the rifle, he spared the brasso and left the engraving in tact. I do know this piece's history does go back to the 1924 book by Capt. Dillin "The Kentucky Rifle" where it is pictured and listed as being in the "Offerman Collection" at that time. It describes this piece to a tee but also makes note of it being stocked in cherry. Of coarse, I wondered about a re-stock here, but given the many mistakes with Dillins writtings along with never seeing a cherry stocked late western PA rifle and in Capt. Dillins own words; "exceptionally fine piece" back in 24. The picture from this book gives little help here, but the general shape, position of the rear r\r pipe and rear site are all in alignment as are the twin pipe retention pins. I have also found this rifle pictured in great detail on page 60 of the book "Longrifles of Western Pennsylvania" "Allegheny and Westmoreland Counties" by Richard F. Rosenberger & Charles Kaufmann. Hope this helps with this interesting discussion!  Joel
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 08:12:27 PM by Captjoel »
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Offline stuart cee dub

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2010, 11:31:44 AM »
I would have to agree with you Capt'Joel .Maybe what preserved it was the obvious two groove rifling for the short lived belted ball .
I had never seen an American rifle so made. But since customers are always right I am sure whoever bought this rifle got exactly what he asked for whether it made any sense or not .Some people have more money than sense and odd ball gun cranks are hardly a new phenomena.

It would have been a real bummer if the owner or subsequent owners did not get the special mold that came with it  .Might somewhat lessen their ability to actually  shoot it .That and the fact that it was a late flinter might have made it just odd enough to make wall hanger status very early in its career .

Just a theory anyway.

I love the fine line engraving on the side plate
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 11:37:17 AM by stuart cee dub »

Offline mr. no gold

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2010, 01:20:38 AM »
That cock-eyed ball design may not have have been all that rare. Twenty years ago I saw a wonderful Bedford rifle in about the same condition and caliber at a KRA Show. NFS, but look all you want, and I did. Went away scratching my head figuring I had seen it all. The rifle, at the time, was in the collection of a prominant Ohio collector who was noted for fine OH pieces and 'different' guns. Now, comes another.
Amazing that these seem to have been prized and preserved beyond all others. Were they walled up somewhere? A gun in similar condition, a later prize winner WPA gun, was found a number of years ago in a house wall in Sacramento, but its long suit was the grand silver wire and engraved inlays. Think it was around the time I saw the Bedford.
I can tell you one thing, if this gun (Smith) was vetted and selected by Kaufmann and Rosenberger for their book, it is solid gold with zero problems, or defects.
Thank you Joel for sharing your grand rifle with us. Much appreciated!!
Dick Gadler

Offline Don Getz

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2010, 03:55:28 AM »
Still puzzled.....no matter how it was stored, how do you keep brass from tarnishing for such a long period of time?  Don

Offline Fullstock longrifle

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2010, 06:26:05 AM »
I had a rifle several years ago that had a bright polished patchbox.  I figured that if I left it alone, it would eventually tarnish naturally and darken over time, but it never happened.  I don't know what was used to polish that brass, but the darn stuff must have been like some kind of silicone.  I even tried to remove any residue surface stuff with acetone and alcohol, but it still never tarnished.

I think those old timers had some kind of secret gunk to polish brass with.  Go figure.  ???

Frank
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 06:27:31 AM by Fullstock »

Offline whitebear

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2011, 06:06:57 PM »
Here I go "skinnin my ignorance" again, last time someone gave me a piece of there mind which is dangerous as they don't have enough to spare, I haven't researched Brunswick rifles but did they use a patch with this belted bullet?  How accurate were they?  I am wondering if they were short lived due to accuracy or mechanical woes.
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Offline Mike T

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2011, 01:57:20 AM »
Did anyone check to see if the stock is cherry?  I've seen cherry with curl.  Can't tell for certain from the photos.
Mike T

Offline Blacksmoke

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2011, 07:40:55 AM »
Captjoel:  Thanks for posting photos of a truly "unbelievable" longrifle!   :o   At first glance I thought - a re -stock and re- lock and so on.  However upon further study and research it appears to be authentic in every detail.  What a find!   One question;  My eyes have focused on the "small" screws in the patchbox - are they brass?  If so they might help to put a date of manufacture on this gun.        Hugh Toenjes
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Offline Majorjoel

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2011, 03:37:43 PM »
Whitebear, it is my understanding that the Brunswick rifle did not use a patch with the belted round ball. Here is a link to help explain a bit about the history and time period of the British Brunswick rifle. It gives a small amount of info regarding the twin groove belted ball barrel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunswick_rifle    Remember that the design used by the Brits was of a very large caliber. This western PA example has been scaled down to a mere 32 caliber. It would be interesting to find out what the shooting characteristics of this caliber and design would be. Alas, I have decided to keep this piece in "retirement" for as long as it remains on my watch.                                            mjtorrente, I'm fairly sure by the appearance of the stock wood that it is curly maple. I have never seen curly cherry, but have no plans of testing the wood. I will keep my eyes open for examples of curly cherry woods in the future.         Hugh,  all of the tiny screws used on the patchbox are made of magnetic metal (steel\iron??). All are finely engraved. One of the most interesting features of A.B. Smith's workmanship is that he engraved every screw and pin on this rifle. The heads and ends of each screw, the trigger guard pins, the r\r ferrel pins......are all engraved.        Thanks all for your shared interest in this unique longrifle! Joel                                                                                           
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Offline nord

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Re: Flintlock Longrifle by A. B. Smith
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2011, 05:30:10 PM »
Contributed by Dr. Whisker:

Smith, Abias Butler (1818-1900). gunsmith. A. B. Smith was born on 11 September 1818 and died on 29 March 1900. Smith was apprenticed to Joel Ferree on 9 May 1836, in Findley Township, Alle­gheny County [Kauffman, The Pennsylvania-Kentucky Rifle, 143-45]. Smith was listed on the tax rolls as follows:  1838-66, Clinton, Alleghe­ny County; 1867, Crescent Township, Allegheny County;  1870-72, New Castle, Lawrence County. Smith advertised his services as a gunsmith in Boyd's Dir., 1861. Thereafter he was a manufacturer and dealer in farm machinery. I have not heard of any patents issued in his name and would like to add that information to what I have.



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