Author Topic: Lewis and Clark  (Read 6840 times)

holzwurm

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Lewis and Clark
« on: February 23, 2011, 10:50:25 PM »
This posting strays a little from the black powder but I came across a very interesting and informative YouTube clip made at the NRA museum about the air rifle Lewis & Clark carried on the expedition. There was only one, but it's mentioned 39 times in the journals of Lewis. Very neat.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/451309/thread/1296928404/This+is+just+to+cool+not+to+spread+around

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 01:20:33 AM »
 I had not seen your post and posted the same thing in OTBF (I just deleted mine). I had heard of the air gun but never knew the story. Very interesting, it would be interesting to know how it was made, seals and such.

 Tim C. 

Offline skillman

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 04:50:31 AM »
I have not seen this clip but have been asked and told about it. I would be very interested to see what documentation they have come up with. I have seen two different air guns that are or were purported to be the gun that Lewis used. This seems to be an unanswered question last I knew.

Steve
Steve Skillman

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 06:12:13 AM »
Very cool piece.  I don't think it's the actual rifle carried by Lewis and Clark.  The commentator states it is the type of rifle they had.  Great piece and a great story, none the least.

-Ron
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Offline Kermit

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 11:02:06 PM »
If you Google "Lewis' air gun" you will come up with a couple of hits that are Beeman site addresses. I couldn't get on just now, something about bandwidth being exceeded. Lengthy discussion, and very interesting read.

There was a lot of discussion of this gun, and whether it is indeed THE Lewis air rifle. There was a lot of forensic examination of the gun, and it's pretty well concluded that this is indeed the piece that traveled to the Pacific and back. It's a great read, when you can get on.

Basically the proof resides in two facts, as I recall. One is the presence of a repair that was documented in the journals, and is present on this gun. Another is that the gun as produced fired 21 rounds, IIRC, and this one was rebarreled or sleeved or some such (I CAN"T recall that bit) to a smaller caliber, and so the magazine will hold 22 balls. Twenty-two is the number mentioned in the journals.

The gun was examined and studied very thoroughly, and it appears to be, in fact, the one purchased by Lewis. If so, it certainly competes for the most significant individual gun related to westward expansion.

There is also some pretty interesting information floating around out there about the air guns used to arm elite Austrian troops,, their use and field support.
Not muzzleloaders, and certainly not using BP, but certainly historic and concurrent with the guns this site is devoted to.

BTW, the gun was replicated and "fired," if "fire" is appropriate to a gun not using heat to propel the projectile. The original used HORN for the gasket to seal the tank to the gun. The replica used more modern materials.
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Trkdriver99

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2011, 01:02:22 AM »
I would really love to have one, but my retirement income is not anywhere near 6 figures and that would be so I could buy a repro. Very very interesting and I do like to have odd ball items that no one else has, but real use items from the proper period. ;). I sure could drive them crazy at sone of the events I go to with that. Of course since it makes no smoke or not a lot of noise it would take a lot of the fun out of a mock battle. The bad guys would not know when to fall down  ???. I bet it would be a good hunting weapon though.


Ronnie

mtgraver

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2011, 05:09:56 AM »
If any of you folks have been at the Market Fair at Ft. Frederick in Md. at the end of April, you may have seen a fellow pulling a little brightly painted wagon with a few guns in it or had seen him give a talk on the guns. That would be Ernie Cowan, he and Rick Keller brought the end to the story of if it was the gun carried on the expedition. Ernie has made and exact copy of that air rifle and shoots and educates people about the rifle, it truly is a work to behold. He did his research and tried to make sure he did it correctly. I've shot the rifle and it's a marvel at best, but I would definitely have an air compressor to fill the cylinder or pump for at least 1500 pumps I think he said. Any way these fellows are more than willing to share what they have learned, not that everyone agrees but they're trying to fill in the gaps in history. Other research they've worked on and built is the Ferguson breech loading rifle, information was found that had never been seen before that answered many questions. You'll have to ask them on that subject. There are some other You Tube clips that ya'll may be interested in on the air rifle if you search.
Mark

Daryl

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2011, 09:23:07 PM »
Seems to me the original Lewis and Clark air gun had a round reservoir underneath the lock and was .30 cal.

Offline Larry Pletcher

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2011, 06:41:44 AM »
Seems to me the original Lewis and Clark air gun had a round reservoir underneath the lock and was .30 cal.
Daryl,
Dennis Priddy, from Michigan, makes one like you mentioned.  I handled it at Friendship and at the Kalamazoo Gun show last march.  One version was relatively plain, and the other was very nicely decorated.  He's a very talented maker.

Regards,
PLetch
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Pletch
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Daryl

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2011, 06:08:30 PM »
I'd sure like to see one - with my eyes and in my hands, that is. The butt-stock reservoir would probably hold more air and volume is #'s of shots, if the pressure is equal.  Modern day pump them up compressses air guns run up to 3,000psi. I do not know how many 'pumps' they take, but most do come with pumps - and have attachments for filling from scuba tanks.

Offline Kermit

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2011, 10:49:58 PM »
Later artists commonly depicted a round res airgun in illustrations of the Lewis rifle. Artists have to be taken as documentation only with great care, especially if they were not there to see the people/places/artifacts. They have been known on occasion to be dead wrong.

I've read the complete journals, admittedly a long while back, and don't recall any illustrations from members of the Corps showing the air rifle, nor narrative describing its configuration.
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

Offline Larry Pletcher

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 02:09:08 AM »
The air gun that Dennis Priddy makes is a copy of an English maker in the flint period.  I cannot remember the gun-making family name.  I'm sure it would be a name recognized by ALR members.   I'll try to find out.  Dennis does not claim it to be related in any way to the L&C air gun.  His gun is patterned after the English gun.  The ball is the size of a large grape fruit.  he has one with a .50 barrel with a liner down to .22.  The patched ball loads from the muzzle.  His has a flint cock;  if I were to buy one I'd have him drill a vent (at least part way into the barrel) just to play with the minds of others.

Regards,
Pletch
Regards,
Pletch
blackpowdermag@gmail.com

He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what can never be taken away.

Kayla Mueller - I didn't come here of my own accord, and I can't leave that way.  Whoever brought me here, will have to take me home.

Offline cable

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 02:23:19 AM »
Seems to me the original Lewis and Clark air gun had a round reservoir underneath the lock and was .30 cal.

Davryl,
it was long believed that their air rifle was made by Lukens, was a .31, and was likely the gun on display at Virginia Military Institute museum.  but fairly recently actual correspondence was uncovered that clairified  the situation, and made it likely that only a girardoni repeater could have fit the description.. American Rifleman published an article that included the original sources  but this is the gist of it:



"  The 2001 publication of the journals was popularly received by the large community of Lewis & Clark aficionados. Among those writing about the firepower of the expedition was a staff editor of Gun Report, Michael Carrick. Carrick delved into the journals, read all 13 volumes and made copious notes on any mention of the firearms used on the expedition.

Through a conversation with a fellow Lewis & Clark historian, Carrick was introduced to a most extraordinary manuscript, the diary of Thomas Rodney. Rodney was the brother of Delaware's Caesar Rodney, a signer of the Declaration of Independence. In September 1803, he went west to assume a judgeship as an appointee of President Thomas Jefferson. On Sept. 8, 1803, Rodney's and Lewis' paths crossed in Wheeling, Va. (current West Virginia was then part of Virginia). And Lewis made note of the meeting in his journals.

Capt. Lewis. Sept. 8,1803. ... dined with Colo. Rodney.
Fortunately, Rodney was a bit more verbose about the encounter.

Thomas Rodney. Sept. 8, 1803. Visited Captain Lewess barge. He shewed us his air gun which fired 22 times at one charge. He shewed us the mode of charging her and then loaded with 12 balls which he intended to fire one at a time; but she by some means lost the whole charge of air at the first fire. He charged her again and then she fired twice. He then found the cause and in some measure prevented the airs escaping, and then she fired seven times; but when in perfect order she fires 22 times in a minute. All the balls are put at once into a short side barrel and are then droped into the chamber of the gun one at a time by moving a spring; and when the triger is pulled just so much air escapes out of the air bag which forms the britch of the gun as serves for one ball. It is a curious peice of workmanship not easily discribed and therefore I omit attempting it.  "

i corresponded with Dr Beeman, the air rifle man, about it and he put me in touch with mr Cowan who made the reproductions, and we had a couple of very nice long telephone conversations about it.  at the time he was just finishing the project..... i could have gotten the complete setup for about 26,000.00 prepaid back then...i would have loved it but thats too rich for this man.  Dr. Beeman had the gun which may well be the lewis and clark gun, as it has a repair to the spring that matches the repair mentioned in the journals, as i understand it.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 02:26:41 AM by cable »

Daryl

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Re: Lewis and Clark
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 03:12:28 AM »
tks Cable.