Author Topic: sandblasting for metal?  (Read 15525 times)

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: sandblasting for metal?
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2011, 12:17:35 AM »
Quote
Pray please tell me what does the composition of automotive coatings and how they are applied have to do with a Kentucky long rifles?

It has to do with the fact that yet again you’re flapping your gums about something you know nothing about and making generalized statements based on utter ignorance.

First off, if you want to get all “historically correct” why do you show everyone how to build a long rifle without using your modern lathe, milling machine, drill press, electricity in any form including lights, magic markers and all the other goodies you so frequently ramble on about, often to the point of causing nausea?

If you had even the most remote understanding of loose media for metal preparation, you would know that it does not require an air compressor and the use of loose media for metal finishing goes back about 33 centuries before the long rifle was invented.  The “sand paper” you so adamantly advocate using for your alleged “historically correct” finish wasn’t available in the longrifle era.  As a matter of fact, the first coated abrasive paper was not available in America until late 1934, four years into the percussion ignition era!  And, if you really want to get snippy about it, abrasives capable of being worthy for use on iron/steel were not available in coated or formed versions until the late 1800’s.  Ever use historically correct “glass paper” Dan?  I’ll bet not because if you did, you would know that it’s not only utterly worthless for iron but pretty much worthless for hardwood too.

Go one further and the fancy LPG/white-gas stoves you advocate using came after the advent of the breechloading cartridge rifle … and those wire brushes in the electric power drill are even later yet.  Thus, you have sufficiently defeated your own “historically correct” claim.

Not only do you not know historical facts, you don’t know modern methods or materials either.  First off, one does not need an air compressor, nor a cabinet … and as for all that “costly equipment”, just about everyone has a shop vacuum already, add $100 to it and you’ve got a nice little blasting set-up that is not much larger than a shoebox that can turn hours of working with historically incorrect sandpaper into an hour or so of letting the historically incorrect electricity do the manual work.

Now, if you would have bothered to consult any history books before flapping your gums, you’d already know that one doesn’t even need electricity to effectively use the historically correct loose abrasive – technically, it doesn’t take all that much money to build a historically correct loose abrasive finishing machine, the kind that were used many centuries before even black powder was invented.  While it can be done, using some PVC pipe and an electric motor (just like that one on your milling machine) can replicate a true historically correct finish without putting all the manual labor into it.  Oh, and while you’re cleaning your post-longrifle era sandpaper, hydroabrasive finishing also pre-dates the longrifle by many centuries too, there’s even mention of it being utilized in the colonies before the longrifle came into production.


Funny how you ignored my challenge … afraid to give the wrong answers or you just can’t tell difference?  Sorry if you’re offended Dan but if you’re going to spout off about “historically correct finishes” then you shouldn’t be advocating the use of non-historically correct methods and materials like you are.  No, perhaps the use of modern loose abrasive handling equipment isn’t “historically correct” but neither are electricity or sandpaper.  It wouldn't hurt for you to do a little learning about history before attempting to claim what is and is not historically correct.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 11:51:21 AM by FL-Flinter »
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Offline bgf

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Re: sandblasting for metal?
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2011, 03:50:10 AM »
Everyone, I'm glad I posted this, even though I feel like a Bubba AND a poor slob (just kidding) now :)!  I'm going to run some experiments as suggested.  I have a feeling that rust blue may be able to do what I want with a little creativity.  One reason I hadn't considered it was because it was definitely out of period for the original I'm following, which is (or at least was) charcoal blued and probably too early strictly for rust blue (as much as I could decipher in my research).  I'm not ready to tackle charcoal blue (and I have some soldered parts I would have to rework -- so much for thinking ahead), so i was hoping for a surface treatment that would work with Oxpho or other cold blue, to approximate both the color and the texture.  You have all given me some good suggestions of things I will try, and I may run a few experiments on wild ideas of my own.  If I end up using blasting media, I will share the results of that too.  Thanks again.

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Re: sandblasting for metal?
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2011, 06:34:17 AM »
Wow!!

Offline Dphariss

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Re: sandblasting for metal?
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2011, 07:32:53 PM »
Quote
Pray please tell me what does the composition of automotive coatings and how they are applied have to do with a Kentucky long rifles?

It has to do with the fact that yet again you’re flapping your gums about something you know nothing about and making generalized statements based on utter ignorance.

First off, if you want to get all “historically correct” why do you show everyone how to build a long rifle without using your modern lathe, milling machine, drill press, electricity in any form including lights, magic markers and all the other goodies you so frequently ramble on about, often to the point of causing nausea?

If you had even the most remote understanding of loose media for metal preparation, you would know that it does not require an air compressor and the use of loose media for metal finishing goes back about 33 centuries before the long rifle was invented.  The “sand paper” you so adamantly advocate using for your alleged “historically correct” finish wasn’t available in the longrifle era.  As a matter of fact, the first coated abrasive paper was not available in America until late 1934, four years into the percussion ignition era!  And, if you really want to get snippy about it, abrasives capable of being worthy for use on iron/steel were not available in coated or formed versions until the late 1800’s.  Ever use historically correct “glass paper” Dan?  I’ll bet not because if you did, you would know that it’s not only utterly worthless for iron but pretty much worthless for hardwood too.

Go one further and the fancy LPG/white-gas stoves you advocate using came after the advent of the breechloading cartridge rifle … and those wire brushes in the electric power drill are even later yet.  Thus, you have sufficiently defeated your own “historically correct” claim.

Not only do you not know historical facts, you don’t know modern methods or materials either.  First off, one does not need an air compressor, nor a cabinet … and as for all that “costly equipment”, just about everyone has a shop vacuum already, add $100 to it and you’ve got a nice little blasting set-up that is not much larger than a shoebox that can turn hours of working with historically incorrect sandpaper into an hour or so of letting the historically incorrect electricity do the manual work.

Now, if you would have bothered to consult any history books before flapping your gums, you’d already know that one doesn’t even need electricity to effectively use the historically correct loose abrasive – technically, it doesn’t take all that much money to build a historically correct loose abrasive finishing machine, the kind that were used many centuries before even black powder was invented.  While it can be done, using some PVC pipe and an electric motor (just like that one on your milling machine) can replicate a true historically correct finish without putting all the manual labor into it.  Oh, and while you’re cleaning your pos-longrifle era sandpaper, hydroabrasive finishing also pre-dates the longrifle by many centuries too, there’s even mention of it being utilized in the colonies before the longrifle came into production.


Funny how you ignored my challenge … afraid to give the wrong answers or you just can’t tell difference?  Sorry if you’re offended Dan but if you’re going to spout off about “historically correct finishes” then you shouldn’t be advocating the use of non-historically correct methods and materials like you are.  No, perhaps the use of modern loose abrasive handling equipment isn’t “historically correct” but neither electricity or sandpaper.  It wouldn't hurt for you to do a little learning about history before attempting to claim waht is and is not historically correct.

I didn't bother to read your whole post they are usually too vacuous to hold my attention, did not look at the photos, I only saw they were there when the links showed in the "quote" window. So your "challenge" went unnoticed. Sorry.
I used to work at a place that did two different varieties of bead blasting. One for actual surface changes to cover sanding marks and a wet process that simply changed the color and look of the piece with no real changes since they were working on high end engraving. I mentioned this before but you were to busy looking up irrelevant (the the majority here at least) high tech $#@* to notice I guess.
Loose media was used on guns a lot, still is. But we were discussing bead blasting, I was at least, you seemed to be painting cars or something. I find it amusing that you like to drift to something else if someone points out that something might not work or is not necessary in the context of making 1 or a dozen guns a year.
So tell me, which of the photos is of the 33 century old process? Do we have and documentation for "hydro polishing" in use by 18th century American gun makers?
Loose abrasive polishing is essentially sand paper without the abrasive being glued to paper. Somehow you have jumped from bead blasting to painting cars to the use of loose abrasives (yes sand/bead blasting IS a loose abrasive process  ::) ). I have several containers of "loose" abrasives in dry, paste and semi-liquid form in the shop BTW.
I can't wait to see where we go next.
Maybe you can teach us how to engrave patch boxes with a lazer or EDM dovetails with a car battery. Or better BUY and EMD to make holes and cut dovetails.
Do you SELL bead blasting equipment? Telling people its not needed sure seems to get you agitated.

several paragraphs deleted

 I was afraid we might end up on the space station or mining copper with the ancient Egyptians so we could polish something with loose abrasives using 3300 year old technology.

I do apologize for trying to help someone get the finish he wanted easily without resorting to a bead blaster. Actually I am not sorry now that I think about it.
I could tell people a low tech way to matt the rear surface of a rear sight or repair small area of  matt finish on barrels. But I suppose this would get you agitated again and you would tell me how to do it with some equipment I will never own. Oh $#@*! I just remembered I bought an outdoors sand blaster cheap at a yard sale about a year ago. It was too cheap to pass up. I suspect I will use it about a much as the first owner did since I figured out that tinkering with 40 year old pickups ate into my gun making. Priorities you know.

And FL please change your avatar that thing is REALLY ugly.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: sandblasting for metal?
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2011, 09:25:35 PM »
Dan,

The OP asked about blasting, and I understand you may have wanted to help but helping requires that you actually know something about the topic you’re trying to comment on.  I merely presented the options available to the OP based on the context of the question asked.  If you didn’t agree with my answer, you were welcome to present the facts to support a countering opinion but it’s painfully obvious that you lack the necessary knowledge to present anything worthy of consideration.  But, rather than reading and actually learning something, you chose to have a temper tantrum and attack me personally.  It’s okay Dan, if it makes you feel better, go right ahead and flame away at me, I worked with troubled children before and have the compassion to consider the source and not take it personally.  I tried to break this discussion down into simple enough terms for you to understand but obviously I overestimated your aptitude and I do apologize for once again causing you such troubling mental confusion.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 09:27:26 PM by FL-Flinter »
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CowboyCS

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Re: sandblasting for metal?
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2011, 06:58:17 PM »
Back to the original posters question, I sometimes use a blasted finish to get a matted rust blue. My equipment is simple, I don't have a cabinet, just a gravity flow sandblaster bought cheap from harbor freight and my shop air compressor. My preferred media is coal slag, mostly the reason I use it over other media is because I can get it locally and it is really cheap and since I don't have a cabinet to recycle it, cheap is a factor.

This is an example of the finish my equipment will produce:



I hope that helps.

Colin

Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: sandblasting for metal?
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2011, 07:41:08 PM »
very nice Colin!!
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Offline FL-Flintlock

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Re: sandblasting for metal?
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2011, 07:58:37 PM »
Colin,

Great looking gun!

Save yourself the trouble on recycling, cardboard box of appropriate size lined with plastic or even a trashbag will catch most of the media, a fan blowing on your back will help keep the dust off you and out of the collection box too.

My experience with the cheap gravity guns is that the air orfice is too large, bush it down with a sleeve or threaded & bored bushing if you want to make the orfice size adjustable.  <5cfm @ 10-20psig is sufficient for most surface prep work.  BTW, you can change or put a ceramic bushing in the discharge tip of those cheap (and some expensive) gravity guns to get better pattern control.
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: sandblasting for metal?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2011, 01:40:41 AM »
Good place to end this topic. It has strayed away from traditional muzzleloaders.
Dennis
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