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Author Topic: When to inlet ramrod pipes  (Read 8284 times)

Offline James

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When to inlet ramrod pipes
« on: March 10, 2011, 03:34:53 PM »
While rereading the list in"Recreating the American Longrifle" Ch. 5 "Order of Procedure" I find myself confused, which is also how others find me too  ;D  #16 is make and install ramrod pipes, #17 is shape the forestock. I don't understand why they would be inlet before the shaping. Could you tell me if it matters? Thank you, James
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Bjonas

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2011, 04:05:00 PM »
James,

My thoughts are that you inlet them before shaping the forestock to allow you some fudge room for shaping around the pipes. This also allows you to ensure you don't bring the walls of the ramrod channel down too far on the pipes.

Perhaps my thoughts on the topic are too simplistic and there is some other really good reason. Knowing where the pipes are and how they look is good enough reason for me to follow that order.

-B
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 04:27:25 PM by Bj Onas »
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Offline Dave B

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 05:11:37 PM »
I dont think you should inlet the pipes till after the forearm is shaped down with the 49 rasp. This gets all that excess wood off and out of the way. Now you can inlet with out having extra work to do. Some prefer to do it while every thing is square to make the drilling of the tabs easier. I suppose that is true but for me I can drill the holes with out having too much trouble but just detest trying to inlet through extraneous wood. One of my other tricks is to use a molding scraper to detail the fore stock. It rides in the ramrod groove and if you have pipe inlets it make for lump bumpy spots. That is just how and why I skip to shaping before putting in my rod pipes.
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 05:20:46 PM »
Yes, finish shaping out the forestock before inletting the entry pipe.  I've seen it done the other way and just scratch my head.
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Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 06:05:41 PM »
Quote from: Jim Kibler on March 10, 2011, 05:20:46 PM
Yes, finish shaping out the forestock before inletting the entry pipe.  I've seen it done the other way and just scratch my head.
Referring to the entry pipe!!!  I have done it both ways and during inletting I did wonder why am I scratching thru all this wood?  So, you could take 'most' of the surround wood away to cut down on the work and still leave some wiggle room. ;)
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Offline Long Ears

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 06:07:32 PM »
Jim is for sure the expert here but I did inlet them before I shaped the forestock on the build I'm doing now. I did find it a little easier to drill the pin holes with the forestock still in the square. Also some schools or design of rifles have a very slight flair of the wood around the pipes including the entry pipe. It looks very gracefull to my eye with this flair. I am going to try it on this rifle. I have seen the molding go around this flair. I would think you would need to inlet the pipes first to properly shape the forearm to achieve this look. Just my 2 cents, Bob.
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Offline James

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 06:36:57 PM »
Thank you all for your 2 cents which is surely worth more than my no sense  ;D  I had the entry pipe area close to final shape when I inletted the entry pipe, which didn't go too bad, my pins are askew but I don't have a drill press yet and I'm starting to enjoy having so many mistakes to fix  ::). The stock started out as a pre-carve. I am not sure what to call it now.  My fore-end isn't quite the right shape yet so that's why I wondered about the pipes. Thanks to all of you, James
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wetzel

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2011, 12:03:50 AM »
I have read and seen people do it both ways, I usually install the pipes before shaping it down for some reason that I couldn't really explain.  In reading through the post I am pretty sure you are only speaking of the forward entry thimbles, but just in case you are also refering to the rear entry thimble, always inlet that before shaping it down, I have a unfinished rifle just sitting in my basement because I tried to do it the other way:(
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Offline B.Habermehl

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2011, 12:54:08 AM »
I have allways inlet my pipes with the forend still "square". I makes life so much easier at the drill press. I do remove the bulk of the extra wood on the lower forend to ease inletting of the lower pipe. Diffierent strokes, for diffierent folks.  BJH
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Offline Pete G.

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2011, 02:16:22 AM »
Inletting the pipes while the forend is still square helps keep the pins straight. That is important to some folks and others say that you can't see both sides at the same time anyway. Take your choice.
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Offline James

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2011, 02:29:49 AM »
Pete  G. I see now why I need the drill press, but did you have tell everyone the excuse I was going to use   ;D
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Offline bgf

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2011, 05:20:35 AM »
Quote from: James on March 11, 2011, 02:29:49 AM
Pete  G. I see now why I need the drill press, but did you have tell everyone the excuse I was going to use   ;D

James,
I have a drill press, but I'm not sure the drilling jig sold by Dave Rase (? I think) isn't a better solution.  They are fun to do freehand, also, but only if you are the type of personality that can live with reality :).
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Offline bama

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2011, 05:34:11 AM »
I have done it both ways and do not have a problem with either. I have recently gone to shaping the forestock pretty close if I am going to hand drill the pins. Less wood means that small diameter drill hs less wood to deflect it as it goes through the stock which translates to straighter holes. If I am going to use the drill press to dill then I leave the forearm square but I talk it down to 1/8" thickness before drilling, for the same reason, short drill bits and less wood to deflect that small bit.
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Offline KentSmith

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2011, 04:13:47 PM »
I take the forearm down most of the way before inletting the pipes.  I leave a bit around the entry so I can then bring the wood down to the tang and shape that the way I want it after the pipe is in.  I also draw out the parallel line for the forestock moulding when I inlet the pipes to align with the pins because I try to place the pins in the groove.  I like to have the forearm down about 90-95% so I can lay the pipes, forearm moulding and nosecap all out before doing the work.  I drill the pins by hand anyway.
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Offline James

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2011, 04:30:46 PM »
This all is very helpful. I see now why the entry pipe tang was a little tough, apparently I had taken the forearm down too far in that area. It doesn't look as good as the ones I've seen on here, but it looks better than it might have  :) Thank you, James
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Black Hand

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2011, 09:54:13 PM »
Quote from: James on March 11, 2011, 02:29:49 AM
Pete  G. I see now why I need the drill press, but did you have tell everyone the excuse I was going to use   ;D

James,
I drill undersized holes from both sides and get them to match before I drill the pin-sized hole...
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Offline Dr. Tim-Boone

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2011, 10:27:16 PM »
I use a guide made by Tom Snyder!!! fantastic tool.. and drill with a handpowereed eggbeater brace & bit... so much easier....
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Offline James

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2011, 01:46:40 AM »
How do I get in touch with the makers of this jig that bgf & Dr. Boone mention.
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"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." P.Henry

Offline bgf

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2011, 02:51:17 AM »
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Offline James

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Re: When to inlet ramrod pipes
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2011, 03:28:50 PM »
Thank you, I made contact by email and am in line. I like tools that make things easier  :)
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"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." P.Henry
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