Early Lancaster progress take two

[Curtis]

I posted some progress photos for comments and suggestions a while back.  Here is a link to the original post: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14522.msg136663#msg136663
I took the input from that posting as well as some offline comments back to the bench and have updated photos. There is still some wood to take off the wrist and butt, as well as some cleanup on the lock panels.  (I thinned them considerably and reshaped them a bit) I feel I am close to the final shaping of the fore stock.... I would once again appreciate any constructive comments and advice from you builders out there.  Thanks for looking.

Rasping down the fore stock:



Shaping with the "roundulator".  I formed a piece of mild steel to the shape I wanted and used it a backing for sandpaper.



Shaped forestock:







Lock Panels: (I still plan on cutting beavertails and  moldings)

[rich pierce]

Coming right along.  I also use a file lengthwise on the forend to get rid of any waves before staining and finishing.

[Don Getz]

Squirrel.....you seem to be progressing pretty well.   One thing you have done incorrectly is defining your lock panels at the rear
portion.     They should not be defined by a sharp offset as you have done.    They are created by rasping a long angle away from the panel.    I also noticed that it is still "rounded" between the upper line of the lock panel and the tang of the breech plug.    This should be a flat area, take a rasp and file it flat between the tang and the upper line of your lock panel.  After doing
this you will see what I was talking about in establishing the lock panel in the whole rear portion of it.   You have done the front
of the lock panels correctly, that is the way they should be done, but, the rear portions are done differently.............hope this
helps.......................Don

[Jim Kibler]

I think it's looking good.  I will offer this bit of advice.  It seems you have attempted to define your lock panels with a tight radiused tool, perhaps even a round file.  A better choice is to create the transition much more gently.  A large half round file is plenty tight at the back of the panels.   The front may be a little tighter radius and require some gouge work a the top approaching the top of the forestock.  This is an area that is tough to get right when first starting.  Take a look at some examples and see if you understand what I'm saying.

Good luck,
Jim  

[Don Getz]

Squirrel.........another helpfull hint.     Something to help with that forend.   Make a sanding block, about 3" x 10", wrap
sandpaper around the bottom side and run it back and forth along the forend, start with about 80 grit paper, this will
remove wood real well and eliminates a wavy look.    Just from looking at your pictures, I believe your forend is still too
fat.    The late Dave Dodds used to work for son John in the barrel shop, and when I was working on a gun I would take
it back to Dave and ask for comments, and they almost always were "take more wood off".    As you look out along the
barrel, you should see no more than about 1/16" of wood on either side............Don

[Roger Fisher]

I have little finness in my own projects; but I notice a wavey line where your forstock meets the side flat of the barrel.  A fine cut file slid length wise would straighten that line (and keep her thin.)

[Curtis]

Thanks to those of you who took the time to respond.  I  have just barely defined the lock panels at the wrist so hopefully I can still salvage this area with larger radius tool as suggested.  One question I have is what would the best direction of movement with the file or rasp.... muzzle to butt or butt towards muzzle - or some of both.  I'll take a closer look at some of my reference material and see if I can figure out what needs to be done there.

Don - you are correct on the area between the tang and upper lock panels being rounded... I left some meat there to allow some fudge room wile getting the panels closer to correct.  I'm curious whether that is a good approach or not?  I will be addressing that area soon.

Jim, in forming the lock panels I have tried just about every tool in my shop and I am still floundering on what seems to work best or even at all.  I need all the advice I can get on the subject!  I have enrolled in a nine day building class under Jack Brooks this June and I can't wait for hands on instruction from such an artisan.  Maybe someday I can take one of your carving classes.....

Rich and Roger,  I will see what I can do to straighten out the waves in that forestock, you have given me some good ideas.

Another question for you guys- as for making the forestock thinner.... I have it thinned to the dimensions of the nosecap, can I thin it more any than that?

Thanks again, Curtis

[rich pierce]

You are correct in that your nosecap will be your limiter for forend width beside the barrel. It might be time to explore making your own.  Few of the boughten ones ever worked out for me, in matching the web, the profile I want etc.

I file or use a fine rasp so I'm not going against the grain.  Often that means going toward the muzzle on one side of the stock and toward the buttstock on t'other.

Regardless of what tools you use for shaping your lock panels, be sure you know the shape you want before putting tool to wood.  Look at this one by David Dodds.  Note that the edge of the rear of the lock panel where it meets the wrist extension is not concave.  It is convex and cuts in directly to the wrist.



A crude illustration of the principle.  Note no concave arc at the rear molding in cross section.

[Jim Kibler]

Squirrelheart,

There is nothing wrong with a forestock a little thicker than 1/16".  I think sometimes people get too hung up on this dimension.  Somewhere in the range of 3/32" is usually about what I end up with.  When shaping the lock panels work towards to butplate on the top and towards the muzzle on the bottom.  This suggestion is based on typical grain orientation relative to the stock. 

I'm going to disagree with the drawing from Rich a little.  The panel is largely defined by any moldings that are carved in.  They are not formed in the shaping process.  So if you would basically take a line from the edge of the panel to where it would just touch the wrist at a tangent this would be a typical cross section at a location as shown by Rich.  It might have a very little bitt of concave profile to it, but not a lot.  I'll try to post a sketch later tonight.

Jim

[A.Merrill]

    Squirrelheart,  What Don and Jim is telling you is right about the lock panels. What Don said about the wood between the tang and the lock side may sound odd, but he is right. This flat will run from the breech to about the end of the tang, this flat  IS  what makes the top edge of the lock molding. Then what Jim told you will blend into this flat. Then you will use this same technique on the under side between the trigger guard and side panel. I really hopes this helps.   Your gun is looking good and it is starting to get exciting isn't it, the bulk of the wood is gone and she is really starting to look like a gun, near done.    NOT,     now your about half done. Now it's time for the heard part, capturing the true lines of a LR.   The best advise I can give you at this point is to slow down, take a long look at other Lancaster's.    Good Luck    AL

[Curtis]

Thanks for the additional information, guys.  I will pile it all in my cooker, stew on it for a bit, and see if I can apply some of it to my wood this weekend.  In the meantime if anyone has something to add please do.

[Jim Kibler]

Squirrelheart,

Here is a rough sketch of a pretty typical wrist / panel cross section.  This would be between the end of the tang and the end of the lock or sideplate panel.  Somewhere midway perhaps.  As you move towards the panel the you will get a touch more radius, but still not near as tight as you have.  Hope this makes sense and helps.

[Curtis]

That sketch along with the notations actually help considerably, Jim.  When I would see a example in my reference material (and a photo like Rich posted above) I think my brain was wanting to put the "cart before the horse".

Curtis

[rick landes]

Keep us posted with your progress. I have enjoyed following along.
Thanks for you efforts in that regard.

[wetzel]

SquirrelHeart,

Pictures are looking good, thanks for asking these questions as I have learned a bunch just following the post.  Tempted to post my next gun build step by step so I can get a more quality build next time.  Have fun this weekend.

[Curtis]

Thanks Rick and Wetzel.  I would like to let everyone in on a little secret....  the primary reason I am posting progress photos and asking some questions is because I didn't do that on my first build, and it really showed!  This one may not turn out a masterpiece either but I am learning a lot as I go along!

Curtis