T/C halfcocked

[Walker Mountain]

This is my fourth year shooting Muzzleloader and I see there’s still more to learn. I now have more than several Rifles my first being a 50.cal T/C Hawken put together from a kit being my first build. I don’t shoot it much now as the trigger reach feel to long for me I like it somewhere between 13 ¼-1/2. I guess that a simple fix’s but chosen to build a new rifle instead using a lock (v spring) & sights of the period. I notice in are club most are using the T/C Hawken with modern sight. During our club shoot a discussion about the quality of T/C rifle came up and I mention I didn’t like the fact that on my T/C you couldn’t cap the nipple at halfcocked which got a glaring look from several T/C shooter pointing out that they can’t cap at halfcocked that’s the way their made going on to say they cap at full cock being at the firing line ready to shoot. Capping at full cock just don’t feel right for me kind of scares me to do it. I thought halfcocked was a safety positions and a good place to cap my rifle. Is it true that all T/C Hawken out of the box don’t clear the nipple at halfcocked? My new rifle Hawken style at halfcocked clear the nipple because I made it that way.
  FREE TRAPPER

[Harnic]

I suspect T/C designed it that way for safety reasons.  If the sear happens to pop out from half cocked, there won't be enough force from the low position to discharge the cap.  That's my theory anyway.  I agree that capping on full cock is less that desirable.

[Dave Faletti]

Interesting.  I have had two T/Cs that I could cap at half cock.  I haven't looked at ones made after the ones  I have/had.  they have made changes to the lock over the years.  That would bother me a bit though.  You should still be able to cap it safe enough and get it back on the half cock position.

[Ron Brimer]

I had one in the 70s, you could cap it at HC , also they used Sharon barrels at that time, things change .
Ron B

[Daryl]

1/2 cock is the 'proper' postion to cap the nipple, not full cock -  In 1860's, Forsythe was asking that all 'rifles' allow capping at 1/2 cock to increase safety when capping. If cocking at full, then lowering the hammer to 1/2 bent postion, there is an opportunity for the hammer spur to slip and consequently discharge the piece.

Some locks today won't allow capping at 1/2 cock which is unfortunate, but many do.  Harry, it is more dangerous to have to lower the hammer to 1/2 after capping.  A low 1/2 cock postion is poor geometry.

TC got so many of the period correct aspects of a real Hawken wrong on their own rifle to suggest they knew or considered anything about allowing their customers to cap at 1/2 cock, the way they were supposed to. "Easy casting on a restricted size of internal parts" appears to be the reason the 1/2 cock notch sets the hammer so low at 1/2 bent.

[stone knife]

I have to cock my Cherokee to cap it. I had a couple Pennsylvania hunters that i could cap on half cock.

[Walker Mountain]

1/2 cock is the 'proper' postion to cap the nipple, not full cock -  In 1860's, Forsythe was asking that all 'rifles' allow capping at 1/2 cock to increase safety when capping. If cocking at full, then lowering the hammer to 1/2 bent postion, there is an opportunity for the hammer spur to slip and consequently discharge the piece.

Some locks today won't allow capping at 1/2 cock which is unfortunate, but many do.  Harry, it is more dangerous to have to lower the hammer to 1/2 after capping.  A low 1/2 cock postion is poor geometry.

TC got so many of the period correct aspects of a real Hawken wrong on their own rifle to suggest they knew or considered anything about allowing their customers to cap at 1/2 cock, the way they were supposed to. "Easy casting on a restricted size of internal parts" appears to be the reason the 1/2 cock notch sets the hammer so low at 1/2 bent.

  I have removed the lock for cleaning but got a real good look at T/C inters parts when the sear broke several years ago (bubble in the casting). Beside the coil spring I notice the fly on the tumbler was very different from locks of that period can’t remember exactly but seem to be bigger and was impress how well it was made & function. Wondering now if that has something to do with ½ cock position being so low, I find it hard to believe T/C made it that way with out a good reason. Only my fourth year shooting BP but I built the rifle 33 years ago, when I order a new sear got the impression the lock didn’t change much. I’ll take a good look at the lock tomorrow to see what up with that.
  FREE TRAPPER

[Daryl]

4yrs?  Many of us have been in the sport going on 40 years. There is always something to learn - no one knows it all. Someone always comes up with or has a trick or method of doing something in the sport that is an improvement over 'our old ways'.

[BrownBear]

I actually prefer a lock that won't let me cap at half cock.  It helps keep our thick brush from sweeping off a cap. I just lift the hammer a little higher, enough room to cap but not all the way to the full cock, then lower it back down to half cock after capping.  I don't regard the half cock as a "safety" so much as a way to keep the cap protected any time I feel it's safe enough to carry with a cap, or a shot is imminent and I have to do some moving.  If I was a range shooter, yeah.  I'd prefer a half cock that allowed capping directly.

[Walker Mountain]

BrownBear that would be a good reason, protect the cap from brush in half cock position thanks for pointing that out. Daryl yes only 4 years shooting muzzleloader but grew up with guns. I like guns, now most of all love shooting muzzleloader and dressing the period.
  FREE TRAPPER

[BrownBear]

BrownBear that would be a good reason, protect the cap from brush in half cock position thanks for pointing that out.

I have lost a few caps from nipples over the years, so I'm real tuned into it. 

Other areas aren't so bad, but we've got salmon berries here, with "canes" like raspberries that run from waist high to shoulder high, along with a nasty plant with even more thorns called devil's club.  Trouble is, you almost can't go anywhere without going through them, and both deer and snowshoe hares love them.

BTW- Those canes are very often wet, and even when carrying a gun with no cap, I have a strip of soft waxed leather tied to the trigger guard.  It dangles when not in use, but when I take a cap off I always lift it up over the nipple, then lower the hammer onto it.

[Dave Faletti]

If the rifle is 33 yrs old the lock on it is different than their newer locks.  I never compared the internals but the hammer changed and they went to a much shorter nipple.  Some time between 1980 and 1988 is when they changed.  You may have a combination of parts from different designs.

[Standing Bear]

Was reminded of this thread when looking at a pistol yesterday.  1/2 cock was off the nipple but the nipple was "shrouded" to the point it could not be capped.  I always thought this was by design to keep from loosing the cap.  No info just what I thought up.
TC