Another pb release question

[TinStar]

I forget where I got this pic, but it seems to show a groove filed in to the buttplate so one can use a finger to open the patchbox.  Has anyone here used this method or am I incorrect in my presumption? What type of spring/latch configuration would be used?




TinStar
Soli Deo Gloria!

[Dave B]

Tinstar,
This is the type of closure used in western PA as well as other areas near by. It is a spring friction closure meaning there is a lug riveted to the underside of the lid close to the hinge and the spring holds tension on this lug so it keeps the lid closed until you lift it caming over  the spring which then keeps the lid open till you choose to close it again.  It is not as complicated as the push button style release.

[Lucky R A]

    As Dave says this is a simple spring/cam closure.  This mechanism is often supplied with commercially cut patchboxes.  It is not as secure as a system that employs a spring catch.  It was used more in the percussion era than the earlier flintlock period.  I would not attribute it to Western Pennsylvania guns or any other geographic area.   It is just a simple closure easy to make and adjust. 

Ron

[rsells]

I have used this type of cam over spring configuration in the past without any issues.  I initially used it on rifles I just built to sale (without an order) because there are fewer parts and I felt there was less chance of having problems due to misuse etc. in the long run.  I have not used it lately because I have been copying examples of original rifles that had different types of closures.
                                                                         Roger Sells

[Herb]

TinStar, this latch is described with photos in the May 2009 Muzzle Blasts magazine by Fred Stutzenberger, "Metal Patch Boxes".

[chapmans]

TinStar,
  Would you like to see a picture of it open?
  By the way this is a purely contemperary gun, not following any particular school.
   Regards, Steve Chapman
     

[Ky-Flinter]

TinStar,
  Would you like to see a picture of it open?
  By the way this is a purely contemperary gun, not following any particular school.
   Regards, Steve Chapman
     

Steve,

I can't speak for TinStar, but I sure would like to see the workings of the spring/cam closure in that box.  Very nice looking piece, by the way.

-Ron

[Ky-Flinter]

Sorry for resurrecting an old post, but I've been searching for 2 hours and this is the closest I've come to finding an answer.

On the spring/cam type closure used on this patchbox, I assume the "cam" piece that is soldered to the underside of the lid has to protrude past the hinge, correct?  How far forward of the hinge?  And how far away from the lid should the end of the cam be?

I've made my first patchbox and now need some idea of dimensions and geometry for this closure.  Thanks.

-Ron

[bgf]

Here's a good one (in progress) from Hoot Al's webpage: http://www.hootalrifleshop.org/2009-04-04_011.JPG, if I understand what you are trying to do.

[Ky-Flinter]

Hot dang, Burton, that's it!  I shoulda just called you!  Thanks.

I would still appreciate additional comments and especially photos of others.

-Ron

[chapmans]

Here you go Ron, this one is different than the link posted, the spring goes up under the finial other than that same principal hope this helps!
  Steve

[Ky-Flinter]

Thanks Steve.  The pictures definitely help.  I'm thinking of mounting the spring under the final as you did.  I saw a drawing of that style in the Dixon building book, but could not tell much about the size of things. 

I think I've got a handle on it now, but the pictures have raised another question.  In your box and Hoot Al's the box cavity ends before the spring area, segregating the two.  Can the box cavity be excavated all the way to the hinge?  Or would that be asking for trouble?  I.E. loose stuff getting under the spring and binding it?

-Ron

[chapmans]

Ron,
  I suppose it would be possible to remove all of the wood but in that case I would want to mount the spring at the bottom of the cavity because you would only have a pillar of wood sticking up to support the spring and I would be afraid of it breaking off, you may need to change the geometry of the spring, or turn the spring around and mount it farther up under the finial. I guess parts could get under the spring and cause opening problems but I never store anything in mine. Hope this helps.
  Steve

[flehto]

Installed this type of Pbox closer on my first LR and found that a longer lever on the lid will exert more force and hold the lid closed more tightly. Also a steeper toggle-over angle on the spring and more preload helps w/ keeping the lid closed. I used .015 spring steel  for the spring w/ fine results....Fred